Recycling a point that many have been making for the last few seasons though, that sooner or later someone was going to get seriously hurt as a result of Wigan's ****house tactics.
Luckily last night wasn't that time but it could've been and let's be honest, players don't come out in that frame of mind, ready to rip someone's head off inside 2 minutes, without a bit of outside influence.

So either the pre match talk and last week's training sessions had him overly wound up or he's just a thug who shouldn't be playing RL.

It's good of you to admit we weren't beaten by the better team but by our coach. At least you are not deluded like most other Sts fans.

Or he's a young man who let his emotions get the better of him, made a mistake and is deeply sorry for it. But yeah, you stick to your simplistic view.

Well forgive me but I simply don't believe you. I don't necessarily mean in anger btw. Just as a turn of phrase. Are you seriously trying tell me you have never said something not literal? Really?

The rest I have no truck with until it comes to the last phrase. That's exactly the point I'm making. Wane does not give ''permission to go out and do physical harm to opponents'' in the sense you are suggesting. No more than any other coach who instructs his team to ''hit them hard'', ''smash them'', ''get in their faces'' or any of the other emotive phrases used regularly in dressing rooms the world over means for his players to go out and play outside the rules.

No seriously, I don't think I have, certainly not since I was in my late teens and worked for a succession of managers who (in the 1970s) worked by tub thumping and shouting and bawling demands rather than by simple explanation - I learned a lot of lessons over about five to six years that have lasted me for the rest of my life, one is that no-one ever made a good decision about anything when they lost their temper, two is that losing your temper is to lose control over your own brain and who wants to admit to that, and three is that in a management situation you take staff along with you, not whip them from behind - served me well when running my own business for twenty-odd years too.

Having said all of that, sport is different, sport is unlike normal life in that a massive dose of competitiveness is required (far more than is healthy in normal life) and in some sports, aggression is required, again far more than is healthy in real life - Wane demonstrated this superbly in the documentary, he would not last two minutes in industry if he tried to direct staff like that.

Wow, that was deep.

So basically you have....



True. I think too many people are quick to judge. Without having operated in the exact same environment, none of us are really at liberty to say what we would or wouldn't do or what mistakes we would or wouldn't make. The only thing that matters here is Hohaia is ok and that the RFL deal with the events in a proper manner. The club and player have issued their apology and it doesn't attempt to fudge the issue which is all you can reasonably ask.

I for one hope Flower gets a lot of emotional support from Wigan. The abuse he's going to get will put a lot of pressure on him and he's going to need support

I'm sorry but how is standing over a stricken man that you have just knocked out, grabbing him by his collar and punching him again "emotions getting the better of him"? That's BS. There are no excuses and no mitigation for what he did and no apology will ever reverse the damage he has caused to the game of rugby league. I really don't get how on one hand wane can apologise after he has been caught on camera telling his players to knock people out?

Regards

King James

A broken nose actually and is under observation for head injury as he was knocked unconscious. Head injuries can lay dormant for a number of days.

Mike Rush claimed nothing was broken. He was due for a scan though in the week. Hopefully he's OK.

All these people bringing up Waney's team talk in the edited documentary make me laugh. Do you seriously think Nathan Brown didn't say something very similar to a Mr Mosoe last night.....

No. That's pretty much why he took him off the pitch, because he was too wound up after the fracas. Were Wigan were itching for retribution after the sending off (which you could see with quite a few high shots) Saints had calmed it down and acted to take the emotion out of it and do a professional job on you.

No he took him off because he was blowing out of his

Haha, definitely. I had someone on the Saints forum call me a pr*** just for pointing that out. He was on his hands and knees after about 6 minutes. Is he really a professional athlete?

I agree with you, I don’t know the man personally but doubt he’s as bad a man as some would like to make out. I’d guess he must be at very low point now, probably one of the lowest points of his life, and he will pay for what he has done in more ways than just a long ban and a fine. It’s sad to say, but I think true, that if another player was in a similar situation to his and couldn’t cope mentally and did something drastic, I do believe that some pond life on these boards would relish it and come out with some kind of sick making comments like some I’ve read in the past. So as you say let’s all get over it now and move on…..PLEASE!

Wasn't the first penalty of the match within 3 tackles (shall we say 30 seconds) for a head high shot from a St Helens player?

Their whole game plan was evident in the first three tackles and it was to rough us up. Wigan unfortunately fell hook line and sinker into it and Flower lost his temper. Box ticked from Saints who went on to win the game. Maybe undeservedly but I'm sure that nice shiny trophy is all they care about.

How about none?

Or maybe Brown had given instructions to smash the Wigan players which is exactly what LH did? Brown has form for suggesting he will let his players do such things. You may as well mention that if you are going to bring up a team talk from months ago as a factor

How about that the incident was a self contained episode in the match with what led to the incident being what LH did with his elbows and BF over-reacted with the second punch?

I suppose people prefer the conspiracy theories.

What I am pretty sure of is that the part of the statement about Wigan playing hard but fair [iis[/i a reaction to what was said in the documentary because people [iwill [/iput two and two together and come up with five here.

I also doubt we will be seeing another such documentary anytime soon.

I for one welcome the apology, the game hinged on the one incident, if he caught the ball, probably scores a try, doesn't get stiff armed, doesn't get sent off, we win by 20+.

Hey ho, that's rugby though.

I for one cannot say I have never lost my temper and done something I regretted. Difference is, it wasn't in front of 70+k people and millions on telly and the media are still going on about it 2 days later.

Cut the guy some slack, he'll be feeling a lot worse than any of us.

Maybe you can give this discussion some context by telling us what you think of Jamie "Elbows" Peacock, or Carl "Elbows" Ablett?

I know you won't, but the least I can do is ask.

No one has got seriously hurt. Would you care to comment on your own team's tactics? I believe you've had 2 players sent off this season to Wigan's 1.

For what it's worth here are my thoughts and comments on the Flower incident / sending off

It was a nasty stupid inexcusable attack, but looks a whole lot worse slowed down

Hohaia says that he isn't bitter about the attack and says he doesn't hold any grudges. Maybe others who are baying for blood should relax a little and let the RFL deal with the aftermath.

Flower deserves to have been sent off and what ever punishment he gets via the RFL

I hope that the club, players and his immediate support network rally around him, which in my opinion the club statement did not do. It seemed to have distancing the club from the various allegations that there are cultural issues at Wigan that lead to the fine line between appropriate and inappropriate levels of on field aggression being crossed, as its main aim. Presumably in reaction to the various net discussions and the video of Wanes team talk. I am sure that Flower feels like about his actions and their consequences for his team mates and the wider club,

I am not convinced that Flowers is the anti Christ as some of the more vitriolic seem to think, I think it probably was a moment of madness. After he has served out what ever punishment he is given by the RFL he should be given the opportunity to prove that is the case.

The Wigan club and every other for that matter. Needs to look at how it encourages aggression, motivates players and what tone it sets for conduct in and in the immediate aftermath of the collision. To ensure that the win at all costs mentality does not cross the line. Only Wane and Flower know what effect team talks of the sort we have seen in "that video" had on the on field behaviour of the individual and the team. I hope all coaches take a good look at themselves and make sure that they are not promoting thuggery as opposed to fair aggressive play.

One of the worst things about this whole thing is it has given countless numpties the opportunity to get in a rage at how Wane is the devil and Wigan are an axis of evil playing a type of Rollerball/ ultra violent brand of rugby whilst the rest of the SL are playing touch rugby.

What Flower did was wrong. However it was obviously not premeditated or part of a game plan. It was 5 seconds of red mist initiated by getting whacked in the face off the ball.

He should get severely punished for it.

There is no wider issue and anyone looking for one is deluded.

Absolutely it was to rough you up. In other words, we wanted to give you a taste of your own medicine. We did it too. And we got the trophy back. Thanks!

Indeed. The Wigan way worked very well for you. Given that you accept Saints went into the game with the same attitude as you've spent all season complaining about though I'm assuming it's left a very nasty taste in your mouth. Or has actually winning for a change sweetened the pill somewhat? I'm genuinely interested btw as I haven't seen a single condemnation from [uany[/u Saints fan for tactics they supposedly abhor so I'd be very interested to hear why (as long as it's not a 'what's sauce for the goose' type answer of course as that would just be plain ridiculous in light of the condemnation).