Of course he did. Hes been talking like we would see something weve never seen before in terms of enthusiasm, strength, speed and skill with an almost unbreachable defence . Its not wrong to question him when all weve seen is mistake ridden clueless performances with questionable defence.

A very presumptuous statement which also sounds suspiciously as if you've had an axe to grind about this all along. (I'd be interested to know if you've made accusations of this sort previously, i.e before the season started).

For all that 'jobs for the boys' conspiracy theorists will feel even more convinced that they're right because of the recent result, there are at least as many fans - if not more - who believe that Wane should have got the job because he's served a long apprenticeship, he's won everything there is to win at junior level and that not to appoint him, as well as a sign that Wigan RL don't reward loyal servants who have done everything possible to prove themsleves, might also have caused disruption within the club.

However, in case you're a genuine fan who's making these emotive posts because he cares a lot about Wigan rather than because he simply dislikes Shaun Wane, I'll say this one more time - if Wigan continue to screw up for the next few weeks, and there are clear indications that the team's standards have slipped (and pre-season matches are no clear indication of anything, ever), then I too will voice doubts that Shaun Wane is not the man for the job. But I'm certainly not going to do that on the basis of the first result of the season, if for no other reason than not wanting to risk looking a complete bloody idiot in a few months' time.

Like a lot of others, I do think that Sean Wane has set himself up for a fall. His comment about wanting all 3 trophies in the press for example.

I also think we are a vastly weaker side this season than last. Our recruitment for this season has me scratching my head.

After losing 'madge' I know we are stepping down in class for the coach, and after studying Wane, he isn't in my opinion intelligent enough to take us forward. In football they have low IQ managers all over the place, but our game requires the skills of a chess master.

I always liked Wane as a player and he seems to have 'done the business' in the junior ranks, according to reports. He does deserve his chance, but I do think he is fighting a losing battle. I hope he proves me and the rest of the doubters wrong. But when you have been watching Wigan since the late 1950s as I have, you get a bit of an education in the game, and only accept the best.

The problem for a coach is, they always get replaced whether successful or not. It always depends on when.

This weekends match should be very interesting.

So you don't think for example Flower has more in common with Oliver Wilkes and Jordan James or Hoffman or Joel?

Flower and Lauaki have gone right into the first team ahead of any junior players so are clearly not viewed as players with potential but as the finished article.

We didn't need players with potential we needed replacements for the experienced players who left.



I think calling the recruitment a "strategy" is being way too complimentary.

I think that is fair enough and I also think the recruitment has shafted Wane's chances somewhat so he may be on a hiding to nothing anyway.

That said one of the reasons I was happy for Wane to take over was I expected continuity from Madge. What I am reading on here is that Wane is taking a completely different approach. Where has that rumour(?) come from?

I think he's been quoted as saying a couple of times that he wants to play a wider attacking game than Maguire favoured. I'm not sure that anyone should interpret that as an implied criticism of Maguire's tactics or take it as evidence that Wane is moving right away from what we were doing before - but needless to say, some people are.

We played a quite attacking style under madge with brutal defense, How is Wane going to better that? He said he was going to America and work on speed, looks like that failed as they all looked bulked up and a whole lot slower.

We weren't really that attack minded under Maguire. Our only real attacking plan was to drive the ball far enough up field to allow for a set move. The set moves were incredibly effective, but when players made errors they'd have to go back to the start and go through the motions again. That's one reason why Wire found it easier to rack up high scores. They played a style that meant they could make breaks from anywhere on the pitch and make metres easier. I imagine Wane wants to combine the rigid attacking structure that Maguire brought with the more off the cuff style of play that Wire used to such good effect.

A few points:

1. It's way too early to be evaluationg Wane. He needs at least half a dozen games grace. Personally I have my doubts about him, but like the guy and think he has earned a shot at the job. I really hope he can cut it.

2. Our signings (or lack of) have been laughable. Have we really spent up to the CC? I can't see where the money has gone.

3. In terms of the competition, - relax. The real competition only starts in August.

One Man Rugby.

A set move? Wane needs to learn what one is...

Yes because I am sure Wane knows no set moves and we have done none in training. On Sunday it couldnt possibly be anything to do with the team playing poorly and not executing them properly.

I really cant believe the over the top reaction on these boards since Sunday, after just one game. Some of the criticism of Shaun Wane and certain players has been beyond a joke and with some posters there seems to be a much more personal element to it than just straightforward criticism.

over the top? They looked slow, unfit and unwilling, its nothing personal just fact. If it was personal my season ticket wouldnt have been renewed. Take you head out of the clouds and think about the game and execution.

Some people on here need to learn how to debate.

There is far too much

"Some posters have it in for XXX"

"Some posters will say anything that makes YYY look bad"

"Some posters dare to criticise the current set up"

NO.

Some posters have views and refuse to follow the happy clappy crowd.

Nothing to do with my head in the clouds.I just think its pathetic how people are slating Wane after one game and trying to make out we were never that poor under Maguire when we plainly were. Indeed there were a few games last year when we were awful and as bad, if not worse, than we was on Sunday.

If you think we were slow, unfit and unwilling that then why heap all the blame on Wane's door? Isnt Bitcon the conditioner so why arent you slating him if you think they are slow and unfit? If players are unwilling and complacent then surely that is the players fault? The criticism and accusations that are flying around after 1 game is ridiculous and paints many Wigan fans in a bad light imo, particulalry when they spout nonsense like Wane needs to learn a set move and accuse him of saying and doing things that he hasnt even done. Wane has served his apprenticeship and deserves his chance which should surely consist of more than being hung to dry after one game. It is simply far too early to judge him. If we are playing like that in week 10 then all means give it to him with both barrells but I am sure we wont be.

Bitcon works for Wane. I didnt see us play as bad last year...name the game for me and I may reconsider. How can you blame the player for being unfit and conditioned, if they have done what they have been told pre season, if not why are they playing? If they have been told what to do then it isnt there fault. Have you ever played the game? Again I didnt say Wane deserves the sack or didnt deserve the shot, but look at Madges first game and compare the difference...a coach can only be judged on his last game so lets do that as we cant do anything else.

I wondered how long it would be before that phrase turned up again, but even I didn't think it would reappear after one defeat.

By 'happy clappers' you of course mean posters whose views differ with yours (even though in the same breath you're preaching to us all that everyone is entitled to hold their own view





)

But I'd be wary of using it too much. Remember how things turned out for the Happy Clappers when they supported IL against people like you for his decision to drop Noble and then appoint Maguire.

I think it was clear to see that whatever they had been doing in the off season did not work. Before the game Wane stated they were ready. I dont see any problem in questioning why we saw a lousy performance since we were led to believe other things in the build up from Wane himself. You cant promise gold then deliver bronze and expect everybody to just overlook it in the hope he might deliver gold next week.....

If you were genuinely expecting victory every single week, then I'd agree. But though I don't hold with this 'early season doesn't matter' viewpoint, I still think you need to give him a bit more time. However, each to their own.

It has ceased to amaze me, just how knee jerk some people on here can be.

Your lack of faith and total negativity should ban you all from celebrating any success we may have during Wanes term as head coach.

I genuinly mean that

Oh deary me Crunchy. I would have thought that you would have learned by now that adding multiple smileys to your post doesn't actually mean that you are right......... If anything it aludes to your lack of vocabulary, but I digress.

I think we all know who the "happy clappers" are and what they represent.............

As for your use of the Noble situation, I stick by my view that the way IL handled Noble was nothing short of disgraceful. I am, of course delighted that the gamble with MM paid off, and have said so on many occasions.

Is that really the best you can do? "I am disappoint........."

Catalan at home, and away for that matter, are 2 that immediately spring to mind. There were other games such as against Castleford were we werent too hot either and when there was plenty of criticism on these boards.

I haven't blamed any player for being unfit, try reading what is wrote. You said about players being slow and unfit and I said why are you laying all the blame on Wane when Bitcon is the conditioner. Bitcon is the expert and as such Wane will delegate to Bitcon when it comes to conditioning or do you really think that Wane tells Bitcon what to do and how to do his job. If that is the case Bitcon may as well go home. Wane may have some input saying he wants x, y and z from the players but Bitcon is the one who would decide if this is achievable and if so how they would go about achieving it. This is a professional sports club not St Pats u12s were the coach does it all. You accused players of being unwilling but blame the coach for this. If a player does not show desire, commitment and motivation then I will certainly blame the player, not the coach. For your information, seeing as you are so interested, yes I have played the game, as well as coached for that matter, thanks for asking.

Catalans were very good against us and had virtually full strength teams too (not 8 missing), at the end of the year they were the leagues form team so a bit off par would have seen us dicked. So like I said how long has Wane had the job and been in training? IF he cannot judge the fitness levels until the first game then he hasnt used the pre season as it should have been used. He should have used it to asses the fitness and plays he has given them. Have we played a full strength team in the pre season to get the fitness levels of plays right? Is that the players or Bitcons fault?

Are you then blaming Bitcon for it? As you have passed the blame from now the players to the conditioner who is overseen from the head coach.

Then again, if you had played and coached like you said you would have know what I have just said known the coach has the full accountability.

No, but they're a good indicator of how ridiculous you think the previous post was.

The same thoughts as before the Hudds game. We'll be there or there abouts at the end of the season and as Leeds proved last season, anything can happen. We've lost one game FFS!!