been plenty of great atmospheres at the ground

That’s complete toddle. There has been some unbelievable atmospheres at the DW as there were at Central Park. I also have been to some where there isn’t any as I did Central Park.

I’m sick to the back teeth of looking back, and thats not aimed solely at you but at the sport in general. We’re constantly looking back yearning for yesteryear forgetting the present and neglecting it. We need to start looking forward not back. We’re being held back by the nostalgia flat cap hunters.

Ruddy Duck is just another WUM posing as a Saints Fan. Previously known as King James. Take anything he says with a pinch of salt.

Yet we have fans who listen and believe what these posters are saying.

And I never ceased to be amazed at those who say they should be allowed to criticise the club and yet are the first ones who cry foul when anyone critices them.

This

Wrong, I have never been the someone called King James, a VUM posting as a Saints Fan and never been a poser!

Take that with a pinch of salt!

Only when there is a large support in the North Stand from a visiting team.

to be honest the best atmosphere ive had there was when the North stand was shut......

In your opinion

And many others!

Funny, I’ve only seen one maybe two other posters say the same as you. Not so [imany[/i really....

I wonder How many?
Is it 1 or 2 people talking in a pub over a pint
Hundreds of People on Facebook/Twitter bemoaning the lack of atmosphere and using that along with dozens of other excuses (Shaun Wane - Boring Rugby, Ian Leneghan - Tight and pocketing money - Too Expensive Blah Blah Blah) as why they don't go

Or

Could it be some kind of Secret meeting that Thousands go to that we don't know about?
They meet up every month and discuss where/why everything that the club does is wrong and then a couple of them are appointed for the group to then come onto selected Forums to act as Spokespeople for the group?




Central Park was a wonderful place but time moves on and we can talk till where blue in the face about Fairytale scenarios where we build a new central Park closer to our spiritual home in the Town centre with Safe Standing etc. and the reincarnation of the old Kop and Popular side.
Reality is unless someone has a spare 25/30 million and can give all the planning etc. a good reason why a 2nd stadium of that size in the town is a good idea when neither club can half fill the current one it's a No-Goer.

As Rogues said earlier, although our decline in crowds from the Highs of around 2006/7 and then 2010/11/12 the reality is this.
When we had the best teams in the world in late 80/s 90s we averaged 12/13/14 max (With probably larger travelling crowds) - It's not that different now.
When we moved to the DW and we had the stars that people moan we lack today in Farrell/Robinson/Connolly/Renouf etc etc etc we only got 10/11k Maximum!!! - We get more now.
When we played "Boring" rugby under Noble we had higher average crowds than we ever had at Central Park and what we had when we had the stars of the early 2000s!
When Leneghan took over we increased those to unprecedented levels around 2010/11/12 15/16k but currently we are around the 11/12k mark and viven Austerity/Brexit and the fact that there is far more for people to spend their money on than there's ever been the current 11/12 whilst not being great is totally understandable.

We can try & put the blame wherever we want - The club, Marketing, Soulless Stadium, Shaun Wane, Boring Rugby, Friday nights, Lack of stars etc. etc. - They're just excuses.

Wigan as a town as always been a place where as soon as the club start doing well its population gets behind them but then find a reason to fall out of love and stop going, Winning everything so it's boring, move away from central park, losing it's best players, don't like the coach or chairman
And then the club starts to dip & struggle until Hey Presto all the experts are quick to tell us whats wrong etc.
Fast forward 2/3/4 years after no success and we start to get a bit again and everyone jumps on board again and were alright for 4/5 years until the cycle begins again.

Superb post

And just to reiterate the point on attendances. This was taken from Bilkos now sadly defunct site. wigan.rlfans.com/fusion_pages/in ... age_id=489

And just to reiterate the point on attendances. This was taken from Bilkos now sadly defunct site. wigan.rlfans.com/fusion_pages/in ... age_id=489

thing about them averages although I totally agree with you both is we had a lot more games then, more teams, 5 cups a league and plenty of wednesday night games in the cold winter.

Your right - But flip it the other way
I used to go to best part of 50 games a year and on a regular basis made 45+ of those a year
There's around what? 30/32 on average per year?

So when people use cost as an excuse how did those fans from 86/87 through to 94/95 manage it then and keep attendances over 13/14k?

Now as I said there may be many points put forward for this but they don't stack up
People would say "Central Park" had better atmosphere - So why were attendances 5k 5 years earlier and 8/9k 4/5 years later???

Some would say it's because we were successful - But we've been less successful 10+ years or so ago and had more at the DW than the great teams had

Some would say the players were better - So why did Noble's teams get better crowds than the super star teams of the 80s/90s and the star littered team of the early 00's???

We've been very successful last 8/9 years yet crowds have started to go down but the reasons given don't stack up see above.

End of the day and I've said it before - people get what people deserve and if the people of Wigan don't get behind the club then we will end up being a 10k club if not worse and have to put up with all that comes with that (And I'd feel sorry for the 10k die hards - But no more than the 2k die hards at Leigh or 200 at Swinton).
Or we can put all the excuses to one side and everyone do what they can (Which includes stop blaming the club at every tiny little opportunity for any tiny little thing and blowing it out of proportion) and get behind as much as we all can and try to promote in as positive a way as we can The club that we all love.

10 years ago myself and a dozen or so people set up the Fans Flag thing - We poured our heart & soul into it for 2 years and I believe created some of the best atmospheres we've ever seen
For various reasons it ended and I believe there's been a Hangover from that - But I've never stopped pushing the club, promoting it and encouraging people as best I can to help increase our attendances, atmosphere, income or whatever it is to help keep us at the Top of the Game.
I'm not naïve - The clubs made mistakes - But I look at the last 10 years and think to myself that every other club (Bar Leeds who are probably on a par but we haven't had their Real Lows) would swap places, what with the players we've produced and how extremely proud to be associated with the Tomkins, Charnley's, Farrells, Gouldings, Williams, Gildarts, Budgies etc. etc. etc. of this world.
4 stars on that badge!!!
4 GF wins and 2 other appearances that we should have won that I'm still kicking myself over
Challenge cups
League leaders

We've been to the Nou Camp - And just think about that, Wigan playing at the Nou Camp!!!!!
We tried Millwall, ok it didn't Quite work, but we put ourselves out there and tried it
We went to Australia along with Hull
We went to Oz and took the WCC to Aus before anyone else had the Balls to do it

Now a few dozen people on Facebook or Twitter using these things as excuses whilst I see them as positives is not going to stop me or change my mind about Loving this club and as individuals we can either sit back and listen to those people who want to look at things from these negative perspectives continually and promote a negative Vibe/Attitude OR individuals can try & be positive at the risk of being called a Happy clapper (Which doesn't bother me as I have my criticism's, I just try & have a balanced view of things when I consider them) and look to get a Good vibe and positive feel about the club (Like I think the Flags did for a couple of years).

I expect to get some stick for my post and that's ok
I just say to the people who continually criticise or blow up small negatives into what seem like massive issues when they're not
Or those that listen to the negative stuff and don't stand up to it or let it drag them down

If we all did that, if we all just criticised because it's fine to do so under the disguise that we shouldn't just sit back and accept things that in our view are wrong, then where does that take us? How does that HELP? (Especially when you look at our achievements on many fronts not just Trophy Success) over the last 10/12 years?

Anyway - This is probably just one of those "One Eyed, Over complicated, Drivel" of a post that I usually write
But if the negative people can put their stuff on and criticise the Happy clappers 7 Snowflakes like me then I suppose they'll be "Man Enough" to put up with the odd Happy Clapper post like men now and again?

I know you did pal and you all did a great job especially the St George game. A lot of people sued to go Sunday afternoon as the rugby was the only place that you could get a drink in them days and I think that stuck for a while. 14-15 I think would be max these days as an average especially with the severe lack of away support. Hull and Leeds have stopped travelling here plus you get Salford, Cats, Hudds and now Toronto who bring very little to no support. Thats a third of the league. In fact outside of Wire and Saints I wouldnt open the North stand anymore.

No criticism from me Jukesy. I just wish more people had a more positive attitude. Life is what you make it and much of that is what goes on between your ears. You can CHOOSE to moan and make everything negative and suck the joy out of everything or you can CHOOSE to look at the positives and enjoy whatever is there to be enjoyed.

What really gets my goat are people who make out that they have no choice in the matter. "I only say it like it is" and "would you rather I said nothing?" are two things we see on here (and elsewhere). Well, the fact is you see it the way you want to... it's all interpretation anyway.. and yes, I'd rather you say nothing. Why on earth would you think I somehow benefit from your negativity?

I'm fully aware that people have the right to be miserable. I just wish they'd stop making out they have no choice in the matter.

I’d love to see the club move the away fans in to the first couple of blocks of the East Stand (but the ones down towards the South Stand) to try and improve the atmosphere. Having even a few hundred away fans in there, sandwiched between home fans, would improve things considerably IMO rather than having them rattling around miles away.

They clearly need to house Saints and Warrington fans in the North but I see no reason why it couldn’t work for the rest of the teams.

totally agree pal

I am talking about people outside the website, not just you and your pals.

You are right about the excuses for not attending games. Examples being "I cannot attend a game because I work nights, Thursday night games are no god as the kids are at school the following day etc, etc.

In the many years I have supported the club and worked on nights, three shift systems, it never stopped me from attending games like Wednesday Lancashire Cup or Tuesday Floodlit games for the simple reason, I have either swapped shifts or took a days holiday. Games which had bigger attendances than what we get now on a Thursday including 26,000 watching a International against Fiji.

I was also supporting the club during the early and mid seventies when gates slumped to as low as 2,500 until Uncle Mo & Co stopped the rot and created more interest, signed better and bigger signings than what we are seeing now as a result of only getting rookies, has beens or players who have been in trouble in Oz as well has not now being able to sign top players from the rival code of Union.

Now the game like Football is all about corporate facilities for the better off and no longer the game is was for the ordinary supporters and this may account for the reason many have stopped attending games and instead just watch them on television.

And if there is Austerity, how is it that many now have more money to spend on other interests.

When you have tasted the butter, margarine is not the same!

On the point of excuses I will say that I am not saying that people haven't got valid excuses/Reasons, I know people who get shift swaps and accept that it's not ALWAYS possible.
My point is that those excuses/Reasons are no different to the excuses people have had and could have used in the past.

So to keep reiterating those excuses isn't going to give us the answers

However
On your point that I have outlined above I don't agree.

I get the feeling your pointing the finger of blame at the lack of signings with your post
You say Maurice stopped the Rot and signed top players etc. and Attendances went up etc.
Agreed

But if you then look at 1995 onwards crowds declined despite signing top players so it doesn't always corelate

Particularly look around Maurice's return to the club 2000 - We already had Farrell/Robinson/Connolly/Rads etc. & We went out and signed Renouf/Newton/Dallas etc. - Average 10k Attendance that year
We then go and sign Matty Johns/Adrian Lam - Julian O'Neill etc and crowds? = Average 10k attendances

Yet marry that with 4/5 years later when were struggling and signing average & Poor players and crowds are up around 15/16k
Look at the crowds in Noble's Tenure - 14/15k
So signing stars isn't always or the Only answer

The worlds changed - Our access to NRL Top Players, Union Top Players isn't the same
Rightly or wrongly (Wrongly IMO as it has devalued & the salary cap challenges we face competing against the NRL & Rugby union severely Hamper our ability to compete against those markets.

People can agree or disagree and obviously that's their choice but like Phuzzy implies a few posts earlier we can either sit and moan and shout from the rooftops about everything that's wrong
Or
We can "Try" and pick out positives, try & promote the club and encourage more people to come along

I get that there's 2 different viewpoints on this and with regards to the 2nd option and being more positive you will always get those that say your a "Happy Clapper" and we have a right as fans to point out when we think somethings wrong etc.
I don't disagree with that viewpoint - BUT - there's very little balance when a lot of people do that

Ah, that explains why I don't see it then. Clearly I don't know anyone outside of this website where I know a grand total of zero people...