How do you come to that conclusion?

Because I don't agree about some things posted on a forum im an unpleasant person?

Disagreeing with someone, and accusing a respected businessman of filtering business funds into his own pocket, are two very different things.

Yes they do and for evidence I'd refer you back to when Noble was coach. For some posters he could do no wrong [usimply because he was Wigan coach.[/u Same with Madge, same with Wane. There are a few people who seem think the deserved criticism Noble got is disloyal.

Also with respect to your long post above about complaints about IL, Wane and everything else [ino one[/i holds [uall[/u those views and your post makes it sound as if you think people do. If that wasn't the intention, fair enough but that is how it seemed to me on reading it.

It's great that people are recognising SWs abilities at last. It would also be great to draw a line under any recrimination over past strongly held views. We are ALL Wigan fans and should now be basking in the glow of a historic achievement. I think we all feared for this season, some more vocal than others and the most enjoyable thing about the double is the unexpected nature of it. I would count myself as a huge fan of SW all along but I really didn't see this coming after the losses at Saints and Catalan and the home defeat to Huddersfield.

At that stage of the season the pressure on SW was enormous, he didn't even know if he had a job after September. So he deserves so much credit it is untrue.

Quite right, best to forget about all the nasty posts by people who assumed they knew more than everybody else, and were arrogant to the point of almost being insulting to other posters... Brow beating other posters,a nd stifling debate with their long, ponderous and "stuck needle" posts...

Best forgotten, so they can save face...

I completely agree.



One of the things that struck me most about Saturday was the atmosphere and I think the last time I felt that kind of atmosphere was funnily enough in 2006 when Stuart Fielden took to the field in his first game for the club and he geed the crowd up. It was electric and so it was on Saturday as we ate into the Wires lead.



I think he deserves a lot of credit for turning the poor form in the 2nd half of the season around. I was a big critic but I just watched him on North West tonight and he is clearly the proudest person in Wigan. The presenters thanked him for coming into the studio but I reckon he will have wanted to be there to show the GF and CC trophies off. It was a very nice tribute to our club as well. With the obligatory "commiserations to Warrington" thrown in of course.

Exactly, when everything looks bad and they can speculate and doom monger away anyone who disagrees, or even just waits for the season to pan out is a naive happy clapper. Shaun Wane played it perfectly however and they've been proved wrong and now it's poor form to hold them to what they said. Such was the level of disrespect and arrogance on the part of certain posters they should be shown up a bit.

OOOPS was meant for PM

I didn't name names because I couldn't remember who said what, as it's been going on for so long - but nor do I really care, because that wasn't my real point. The main thing is that IL and SW have surely now earned some respite from the near-constant carping which, on this message board at least (not to mention the other one!!!), has bedeviled their tenure.

I'm not just saying that people need to put aside the preconceived notions they held when IL first arrived and SW first got appointed, and give them some credit for winning stuff. I mean they need to completely rethink their attitude, stop always assuming the worst with every new development, stop rooting through the detail to try and find negatives, and stop working from the baseline principle that IL and/or SW will always be at fault.

Just as an example - the other week, you got uppity with a poster because he referred to IL as 'Ian'. Now, what kind of mindset does that reveal other than an innate hostility to the guy? If someone was to refer to Gary Hetherington as 'Gary', I could understand it. I would get uppity, as he's an opponent of our club. But IL is fast emerging as our most successful chairman of modern times. It really is a bizarre attitude for a Wigan fan to take, Dave.

This is all I'm saying. It's time to draw a line under past errors of judgement, and start acknowledging that IL and SW are trying to do their best for the club and that their way is so far paying dividends. Who knows ... maybe they won't always get it right, and there's nothing wrong with pointing it out when they don't. But for Heaven's sake, let's just put a sock in the muck-raking, and start offering some genuine enthusiasm.

I'm not saying, by the way, that you and other previously unhappy posters won't do that, or indeed aren't already - but you queried my post of the morning after the GF and I'm just trying to explain my thinking.

Are you sure? If I did I must have had a few! Even if I did it certainly doesn't reveal anything like an innate hostility to the guy unless you choose to draw that conclusion.




Nothing is black and white. IL has made some errors and he has got things right. I call each situation as I see it and if he wants to take the RFL to task as reported I'll take a day off work and drive him to the RFL myself if he wants. I will back him 100% on that. Do I think he handled the contractual situation with Sam correctly? No but that doesn't mean I have blinkers on about what else he does for the club.



Fair enough.

Having read a tonne of bile this year on this forum, let's hope 2014 brings a more harmonious cherry and white forum.

Let's accept SW is a great coach
Let's accept that he makes mistakes, but is the best man for the job and IMO is a better coach than MM.
Let's accept IL is a great chairman
let's accept he makes mistakes.

Together as a united fan group, we are stronger. Let's make 2014 a year were we can all (well mostly) be united behind the club and who knows what can be achieved??? The treble ??



I'd like to thank many of the posters on here, who I have genuinely had the pleasure of reading their opinions, comments and jokes.

2013 .. The year of the Wigan warriors

Watching it again on Sky shows the glaring difference in the 2 coaches. The smirk on Smiths face after Wired 3rd try said he knew it was already won. Wire bombed a 4th after a decent move ended in a knock on. Smith arrogantly applauded the move as if to say , "no worries, theres plenty more where that came from
Wane on the other hand remained focused. Did he applaud the move when josh knocked on? For anyone who cant lip read , he smacked the rail in front of him shouted "ffs Josh" in an angry manner.
Only after Pats walk in did he allow himself a smile.
Arrogance v Passionate ...you decide which you prefer.

A better coach then MM, what a debating point that is! He's achieved something MM didn't but could he have done it had he followed Noble and not Maguire himself?

He's certainly proved his doubters wrong and confirmed what a good coach he is. He certainly thinks more long term then Maguire did and doesn't just play for the moment but give youngsters chances to build them for future seasons.

My hunch is he couldn't have achieved quite what he has if Maguire hasn't been here first but he's definitely been the correct choice to take forward his work.

I'd go a long with this. I think Madge brought the "new broom" that was needed at that time. It was imperative that his successor was his assistant and it was very much a case of passing on the baton. It was then up to SW to run with it; and there's the thing. He was expected to drop it an fail, but a League Leaders Shield, Challenge Cup and Grand Final Title illustrate the guys credentials. You can throw into that mix the blooding of the youngsters which this year has been a great success and has laid foundations for the coming years.

I don't pretend to stand anywhere! Like you, I can see the immense good that IL has brought with him as well as feeling that he is wrong in his limp attitude to contracts. Like you, I am delighted by SWs successes after being concerned when he initially got the job. Where have I criticised SW?
I am irritated equally by those who whine over nothing as much as those that never complain no matter what. None of this makes you a happy clapper nor me a doom monger.
As for your last paragraph, the less said the better. How is mentioning those of an overly positive disposition in any way less acceptable than mentioning those with a clear anti IL agenda?

Sorry but none of the above makes you a happy clapper, it's far too balanced and perceptive


Now, if you happen to believe that Lee Mossop suddenly become a crap player when he bailed out of his contract......

I haven't referred to the mental capacities of either camp. All I wanted to point out was the fact that Cruncher has himself been critical at times but took it upon himself to declare himself a happy clapper and to chastise the critics. He is nothing of the sort. He just finds the "anti" camp more irritating than the overly "pro" camp whereas I am damning of both.

This thread is getting a bit 'Lord of the Flies' for me, so before some of us start worshipping a pig's head on a stick (again!), take a look at this and remember why we all love this great club as much as we do and how much it means to our coach.



No happy clapping offence intended

Would love that in a frame. Wonder if the Observer would send the image if I emailed them?

If I were Wigan I'd be getting it done and selling it in the Grand Arcade shop.

Much better than the split shirt madness!

That is definitely something worth framing as a memento

Shaun joined Madge as assistant in 2010 then became head coach 2012.
That's four rugby seasons with three trophies to win each year, obviously over the four years twelve opportunities to win silverware.
In those four years, of the 12 available Wigan have won six trophies, LLS 2010 & 2012. C Cup 2011 & 2013 plus two Grand Finals 2010 and 2013.
Warrington have won three.
Leeds two.
Huddersfield one.
It's a results business for coaches and those six trophy wins in just four years are exceptional.

would be nice if the club offered it as a framed picture and the proceeds to joining Jack...

Exactly what I was thinking when I saw it earlier.

That would be a great keep sake.

Matty B, NickyKiss.......if you can get it sorted let me know, and surely it could raise a bit for JJ