There is no point playing Tomkins at FB, I see the point people are trying to make but it would not work in super league. Pat is ideal to play there in super league and also Tomkins makes a better 6 or 7 so why not play him in his best position.

Steinlager sums it up very well.

McIlorum at 13 would be ok but again there is only any point if he needs to fill in for someone, we currently have one of the form 13's in super league playing there, so why change it.

Gleeson has been the only class player that IL has signed. But players like Riddell, Pryce, Roberts, Phelps even Tim Smith have not done enough to justify being regarded as a success.

Seems my glass is not half empty its about 3 quarters empty though. We need more players of the calibre of Gleeson and not players like Mathers. The next 2 players we sign will determine if we are going to go forward or go backwards.

I don't see why we'd want to play Tomkins at full back.

He get crucified on kick returns and wouldn't be as influential in attack as he would at 6/7. He would be brilliant in support granted however, he wouldn't see enough of the ball.

Why sacrifice the best young talent at the club to make way in the squad for an Aussie who isn't performing?

-----------------------------------------

In regards to Bailey wanting a contract extension, it unfortunately just isn't practical. He is a great guy to have in the team and at the club, but we are overloaded with younger and cheaper options in the back row. For next season we're looking at:

O'Loughlin
Hock
Hansen
J Tomkins
Mossop
Farrell

With probably only 4 spots available in the 17 most weeks, this is the maximum number of second rowers we should be carrying.

I haven't seen either Mossop or Farrell in the academy/reserves so can't comment but are both looking ready for first team opportunities from next season? Do either look ready to be in the squad regularly?

Next year is a massive year for Hansen. He really needs to step up and prove he's good enough to cement a Wigan shirt for the next few years. If he doesn't, then I'm not sure he'll get a renewal at the end of nexy year.

Personally I'm a big fan of Hansen's. He is superb in defence and consistently makes more tackles than most in Super League, and he runs some of the best lines in the squad in attack. The only problem is he doesn't run nearly enough of them. With Bailey going I'd like to see Hansen become a bit of a leader of the pack, and I think he has it in him.

----------------------------------------

Finally, does anyone think it would be beneficial to swap Carmont and Gleeson? i.e. Have Gleeson lining up on the left along side Ainscough and Carmont with Roberts.

Reason I ask is that obviously Ainscough's main weakness is in defence, both positionally and in the air. Carmont isn't the best in defence either and I think having Gleeson inside of Ainscough might improve his positional play no end and it would be reassuring to know Gleeson is there alongside Ainscough in defence as I see Gleeson as the stronger defender between him and Carmont.

Plus it would mean Gleeson has a bit more of the ball since most of our attack is channelled down the left hand side. Also if we are looking to release Carmont at the end of next season then it would mean we would have some consistency with Gleeson and Ainscough so they could build a partnership over a few season.

May be a rubbish idea, may be worth a go.

On the Fox Sports site they are quoting Melbourne as saying Brett Finch won't be playing with them next year.
His agent has been talking to four SL clubs on his behalf.
Is he what we want?

I mentioned it a whilke ago, but loads of people went on about him passing in left to right, he's a right centre and Carmont is a left centre, passing from right to left



They must struggle passing it the other way



I thought Carmont on the right, would bring Roberts into play far more.

He could well be and it wouldn’t be that bad either.

IMO if you look at players like Finch and Dobbo who are surplus to requirements in the NRL it has to show an riches in talent over there.

I’ve lost count of the amount of quality HB’s the NRL produces year on year- Prince, Marshall, Thurston, Inglis, Hornby, Fien, Anasta, Lockyer, Orford, Kimmorley, Barrett, Carney etc. I’m sure there are many, many more that I’ve missed out on as well who are currently playing.

Surly with such a riches of talent logic has to say that there will be some talented kids playing reserve grade rugby in Aus or NZ that won’t make it or would be willing to come over to SL.

I’m sure there are easily four or five players equal to the talent of Dobson out there right now.

Do we have a proper scouting network or is it videos from Setanta and IL making a two week trip every year?

Thats a good point, I dont think we do but we should. IL is looking to open up a connection with an NRL team to trade young players on loan I think.

There are many NRL players who maybe are not good enough to get in the best teams over there, but would do superb given a run in a super league team.

Hull sign Jordan Tansey: www.hullfc.com/hullfc/contents/?p=3555 Interesting signing. Good young player but on the other hand, his NRL status does big him up. Either way, he's a handy & versatile player to have in your squad.

Hull sign Jordan Tansey: www.hullfc.com/hullfc/contents/?p=3555 Interesting signing. Good young player but on the other hand, his NRL status does big him up. Either way, he's a handy & versatile player to have in your squad.

Why didn't he back himself and stay over there though?

Unlike alot of others he's actually been getting a game over there and that can only help to improve him.

It was only a loan deal from leeds i thought.

i guess he didnt get any offers from aussie to stay

You'd think with Wigan being the hot bed for RL talent that it is we'd look to have at least one scout in Aus giving us a very good base for talent to look at.

There has to be soooo much wasted talent in Aus surly?

Re- the Long Sam Myler.

Many posters on here Jonh etc seem to be fixated on signing Orford and completely slamming the suggestion I made of signing both Long and Myler.

Firstly, lets rewind back a few years and look at Mr ML himself, a man who was torn to pieces by the Wigan fans (and often rightly so) for signing 'past it' Aussies. Fast forward to today and we see a number of posters cavansing to sign a 30something Aussie halfback. Who has already seen his best years in Aus.

Lets look at this as a potential signing (despite the fact that Orford isn't looking for a move).

He would want a good slice of the CAP, this has obvious knock on effects. He's of a certain age that no matter how good he is for our club he isn't going to be around to form a lasting partnership in the halves at Wigan.
So is signing Orford going to deliver Wigan the partnership that is going to be around for the next 6,7,8, years? No, at maximum he play his part over a two year period, then leave us wanting a new 7 and having to start again in building a lasting partnership. We would be right back where we started from with no long term plan in such a key area of any team.

What happens if he plays well, will that help long term? No. Barrett was excellent for Wigan but his departure left us at 6s and 7s having to mix and match potential partnerships in the halves having little success resulting in a Wigan team which lacks flair and the ability to move the ball around playing attacking successful rugby.

Bringing in both Long and Myler has obvious benefits, an experienced player (arguably the best 7 in SL over the last 10yrs) who can work with the young halves helping them become a formidable long serving partnership in SL.

From here, as I suggested Sam could play FB or alternatively come on from the bench for Long. Here we would have another attacking option when Sam arrives on the field. Long could rest prolonging his playing career and Sam could continue his playing education without having to play 80mins in each match.
This would also 'buffer' the idea of signing Myler alone and asking two young halfbacks to steer a team to success (often behind a beaten pack).

Long would miss certain games to prolong his career and allow Sam and Myler to play on occasion together (more and more over the next 2 seasons) so as Long left the club we would have 2, still reality young halves with 3 years SL experience and the knowledge of how to break down a team and more importantly how to win a game.

Such a signings would shield the young halves for now and also create a lasting quality partnership for years to come.

Lockyer came from a AFL background so he can play FB in RL? Different sport. Silly post.
Edwards was a FB in a different time? Yes he was. A time when players got away with more and were a lot harder on younger smaller players. Sam would be more protected than Shaun ever was.

Regardless of playing Sam at FB or from the bench and having him start more and more as time moves on is a gradual progression that cleverly promotes consistency in the halves (when Long leaves).

Now Long has signed for Hull. Orford is a short term replacement (if he even signs) signing Myler alone and throwing him in the deep end with Sam is a risky move.

so who is left? Sam and Tommy? hasn't exactly worked so far as it, go to the games and watch Wigan play or look at the only stat that counts, the league table, both will back up my statement.

OR..

Sign a new 7, but who??

Brough? Robinson? Not good enough. Dobbo? I would love it, but it won't happen. Pull off a coo and sign Burrow? not gonna happen. Finch?

So slaters, what is your masterplan for the long term success of Wigan in the halves?

Or is a 2 year deal with Orford the end of your vision?

Doesn't exactly look like I'm the naive one now does it.

Myler is not even off contract, so it is not as simple as Wigan offering him a deal.

There seems to be some very arrogant assumption that Myler would come running to Wigan grateful for the opportunity, sadly those days have passed. Firstly he is contracted till the end of 2010 and if a club is willing to throw a tranfer fee in we will not be the only ones in the market for him.

Sometimes i have to wonder what planet people are on, they seem to think we can release players and buy players at the drop of a hat with no knock on effect to our cap space or club.

we can. it is still 1991 isnt it???

Heard wire have offered 200k for myler

Pushing for the better players regardless of their contract situation isn't a bad thing. Circumstances can arise which creates a situation were the player parts ways with the club not seeing out his contract.

i.e Barrett, Carney, and more recently Gleeson. So it happens.

No one (well at least I) don't expect Wigan to be signing up players off their name alone anymore.

So what is your solution to the long term plan of action for the halves at Wigan?

we should match anything any other club has to offer. if we do and he chooses someone else then fair play to the lad

I'm wondering if the lack of 7's around (especially quality English 7s) is upping Myler's worth.

it probably is and its easy to see why

I quite agree Wigan should be pushing for players regardless of contract situation, but we also have to be realistic to think if Wigan are making Salford an offer that is accepted so will other clubs, with as i understand it Wire very well placed and an offer on the table already. Its an open market and who is to say he will automatically come to Wigan, this is of course prior to even knowing if he is available.

A long term strategy is impossible to say, i am unaware of who is available over the next 2-3 years. What i do not think is right is to say Long and Myler are our only chance of forming a long term partnership. You have chosen to back the most obvious option, but who is to say that is the only one? I would be very surprised indeed if there are not a good few quality young halves coming off contract in the next 2-3 years.

I accept Orford is a 2/3 year player at the most but in that time Sam will be better placed and not need nurturing as much as he does at the moment. Bringing 2 halves in, at the current moment does nothing to balance an already lop sided squad. We need 1 half as a priority this year and depending on who that is should be potentially looking to recruit another next year once we have the likes of Fielden off the cap. We still have TL on a 3 year deal to cover the halves should we pick up an injury there if as expected he does move to 9.

You seem to suggest that because we have not signed Long and Myler that there are no other options. I assure you there will be, I for one would be made up if we could bring over Finch he would give us 4-5 good years.

You seem to think it is crucial to pair Tomkins up with another young lad, i do not. Chopping and changing every 2 years is less than ideal but a 3-4 year partnership is perfectly acceptable in my honest opinion, as long as they are the right quality of player.

To claim we are up a certain creak minus 1 paddle because we have not managed to sign Long and Myler is in my opinion very premature maybe 2-3 years premature. We probably will not know if you are right in your thinking till the end of his career never mind speculating about it at the present time.

Lets just wait and see how things pan out prior to crying into our pints, you never know you may just be pleasantly surprised.

Is 200k or more to risky for such a young player ?

I agree with you BTW

It is and Rugby will only begin in 5 years time

It isn't a massive risk. Historically bid transfers have paid off (Fielden being the exception)Sculthorpe,Harris,Newlove all paid off well. I think the lad is the real deal.
As the Lad comes from Widnes, surely he'd rather play for Wigan than Wire?

You could even argue fieldens paid off, purely from the fact he kept us up.

I think if you generally look at spending 200k on a teenage scrum half if would be a risk, but in mylers case he's performed for two years now in the first team, and still looks a class above his teammates. He's got enough first team experience now for it to be a much reduced risk!

good point, it would certanly cost wigan more than £400,000 if they had been relegated