Well what aspect of his game do you think he was referring to then? Do you think it unreasonable to assume this was an area Noble meant?



No, you are putting words into people mouths. No one has said he won't pick him until he is perfect.



Who said he did?



You can take it that way if you want as I am sure you will because it takes the discussion away from discussing the actual merits of the decision.



And we can debate his team selections because that is one of the things a discussion forum is about - END OF.

He keeps leaving the leagues top try scorer out and if that isn't worthy of debate I don't know what is.



No one has suggested there is conspiracy against Ainscough but rather Noble is doing as he has done in previous seasons and stuck with his senior players which you can not deny he has done and is doing again. What we are doing here is debating the merits of that.



No its not the "End of" anything unless you want to ban all debate about controversial team selections of course.

It wouldn't be so bad if you argued against what people actually wrote instead of what you suggest has been written to make your point.

In this post you have suggested:

People have said Noble has said he won't pick him until he's perfect.
That people have suggested Noble has said he isn't ready ans said he is not as good as Roberts etc.
There has been a conspiracy against Ainscough.

None of these things have been suggested at all to the best of my knowledge.

Dave

Thats what gets my goat a little tbh.

he hasn't been getting caught out on the outside like say Sykes and then Gardner were in the world cup against Vatuvai and he hasn't been caught out like Gardner was against Ainscough himself down his line.

I'm not saying he should be back in now but people need to step back when criticising him. It's going to ruin him before he's begun.

I have tried to reply sensibly but reply being "messed aroud"

Are we being censored??????

The OP should change this thread to "Not in the 19 to face HKR"


Talk about thread drift.

We finally have a good squad and we finally have strung together a few wins.

We finally have a choice of players and cover in key positions.

I though this would be reason to start feeling good about the team, not to start picking holes in whether a certain player should/shoudn't start.

It's fine to have an opinion on this but it does seem to be getting an obsession!

Ainscough is a young player, if he keeps his attitude right then he's got a very long career in the game and at the end of it no one will be worried that he missed some games in his first SL season.

Absolutely Correct!

And the continual of using any excuse on any thread by some to have a pop at Noble is getting tiresome!

I'm afraid having a decent squad and stringing a few wins together playing a good brand of rugby doesn't fit in with some peoples agendas!

Some good points the AJ

By having a good sized squad, it means that some fans favourites will play and some fans favourites will not.

Nobles job is to pick a TEAM, that is capable of beating the opposition on that day. At the moment Wigan are doing o.k. and I think will get better.

Our job as speccies is to get behind whatever team the coach picks.

I'm really looking forward to tomorrow and next Fridays games as that should give us a good idea of where we really are at.

The thing I don't quite follow about this criticism is that someone like, for example, Alex Fergusson does this sort of thing all the time and the Man U fans just get behind the team he's picked to do the job in hand. What is it about Wigan fans that makes every decision a reason to criticise? It's not like the selection policy in this case hasn't been vindicated. Had it not, then fair enough!

My only problem is the Ainscough bashing that's going on, not the fact he isn't picked every game.

I wouldn't expect him to be selected every game, as he is still young; in fact I'm expecting S. Tomkins to be dropped soon/when the team next loses.

So in the same sense I see it as pointless to use it as an excuse to have a go at Noble.

Spot on.

Same as from me, i'm not saying the lad should be back in the side but just that these supposed flaws aren't quite as great as being made out(or at least they've not been shown up in the first team).

He'll be back in soon enough because theres no way the backline will make it until the end of the year without an injury.

a little bird has told me that piggy is on the bench tomorrow in place of S Tompkins. Bit gutted if this is true.

As I said last week, Tomkins being dropped in the very near future is pretty much a certainty.

And based on the reserves game last week rightly so. He had a poor game.

Overall its bloody great to see players missing out and fighting for places.

How come mate? I didnt see this coming at all. The lad scored last week and has given the side a boost regarding his creativity etc

We have a different opinions then... unfortunately a fair few people share my opinion, including those like Rogues who watch the Reserves week in week out and therefore have a good idea of what they're saying.

Simply because of Brian Noble's policy of easing in young players. I happen to think its the right policy although I hope when Tomkins does get his break it will only be for a game or two.

One thing I am concerned about with this game is the weather. Its forecast rain and I never have a lot of faith in Wigan in wet weather. We willl struggle to get good ball out to our 3/4 line and I don't believe our forward pack is the kind that benefits from the wet either. You need big, strong forwards with good leg drive in these conditions and bar possibly Coley I think we're lacking.

Poeple could say Feka but he'll struggle to get momentum in the wet which is what his game thrives on and he'll tire quicker. Fielden's game is not based whatsoever on leg drive, he tries to use his upper body strength to bust through individual tackles. The majority of our backrow are defensive workhorses who will also struggle to make yards. Incidentally the replacement of Tomkins with Riddell could turn out to be a smart move in rainy conditions.

And while I do not watch the reserves week in week out I know some people who do and they think Rouges is over stating the case. He did after all neglect to qualify his criticism in last reserve game re fielding kicks with the fact the conditions were very windy which I would have thought would have been seen as mitigating circumstances but then sometimes what you leave out is more telling than what you put in



I don't know if you noticed but Saints have just signed a 22 year old NZ centre for next season who is an NRL regular and already has test caps having played the Anzac test. How did he reach that level by the age of 22? Not by playing in the reserves. In fact he played in the Tri-nations for NZ in 2006 aged 19 - same age as Ainscough is now.

He made his first grade debut the year before iin 2005 aged 18 and played [u19 games [/uthat season. This shows if you are good enough you are old enough and contrasted with that Noble is IMO treating Ainscough far too much with kid gloves.

Will Ainsough be a test standard player any time soon? He won't even be a first team regular under Noble but if he were I think he would progress leaps and bounds. He won't in the reserves. If Noble has a "duty of care" he needs to show it by putting him the side not keeping him out of it.

Dave

But Ainscough and Soliola are two different players.

Soliola was able to keep up with the demands of NRL and international Rugby League due his physical size and power which are the main aspects of his game and those natural attributes helped him defeat a defender, compete for a high ball and brush off defenders.

Ainscoughs attack is good and he can finish, but todays game is not just about how many tries you can score. Players are clever enough to recognize, highlight and pinpoint weaknesses in players that can mean they end up letting in more points than actually scoring them and expectingly, as a young development player, Shaun Ainscough has a few flaws that he needs iron out before we can risk playing him regulary...For his sake as well as ours.

Ainscough has shown that has has ability, but isn't the finished article.

Without taking anything away from him, some of Ainscough's first team success is down to those around him and it can overshadow some of his weaknesses that are more visable when watching him in the academy and reserves.

He's an awesome talent and we'll see the best of it in time to come.

Fair enough but I was at the reserves game too and wasn't impressed with Ainscough's defence. His attack was great, he never gives up or wants to go down, but if memory serves he made mistakes other than those two dropped bombs. And if I could remember what they were, I'd write them down, but I can't.



Yes I have noticed, no need to be sarcastic. Perhaps it's because...he's a better player? I've never seen him play so I couldn't comment.

Don't get me wrong, I really want to see Ainscough do well because I think he has the potential to be a fantastic player. I just don't want to see his confidence completely ruined by making a costly mistake in an SL game.

This is what I mean but in more words and with more knowledge!

Personally think Noble was wrong to take Ainscough out of the side, certainly for more than one game.
To be honest I couldnt give a monkeys how he did for the reserves last week. Lets look at how hes doe for the first team.
Ok he has made 2 or 3 big mistakes. So what? he'll learn from them, particularly the kicks along the floor. And he will learn from them by playing at a top level. There is little we can do with the high ball unfortunately.
But even so, its the risk we should take because Ainscough is exciting, can change a game around on his own, can make breaks AND score a hatful of tries. When was the last time we had a player of this calibre? I cant remember either. For the first time in donkeys, I have genuinely been excited by a player.

What has amos roberts done to stay in the team? hes done next to bugger all for the team so far this season.

I wasn't being sarcastic but showing a very contrasting approach to young players development. You don't have to have seen this guy play anyway because its not about him but about Ainscough. Do you think Ainscough looks out of place at SL level? That is what it boils down to. If he doesn't look out of place (and IMO he doesn't) then playing in the reserves is pointless and he will learn nothing as the standard is accepted to be much lower than NL level never mind SL. Based on his performances in SL there is no reason for him not to be given a run in the side like Soliola was given when he was 18.

It is not unusual for players of that age to make debuts and keep there place. Schofield was 18 playing for GB, Crooks was similar Farrell began at 16 with us and was GB captain at 21. Had anyone exercised duty of care with those players like Noble does they would not have played for as long as they did at top level. We have Myler and Westerman doing the same now in this era.



He is going to make a costly mistake sooner or later whenever he becomes a 1st team player. He will have to deal with it when it happens and he is just as likely to make that mistake aged 20 after another year in the reserves as he is at 19 if he got his chance now. At 19 and in his first season the fans ought to be more forgiving. Well I thought that was the general opinion on here pre-season anyway. However get a little older and the fans are not so forgiving and you only have to look at comments re Goulding to see that.

Dave

Could not agree more. If as I think was rumoured earlier Noble drops Tomkins for the game tomorrow as well then the side becomes less exciting yet again and more predictable.

Dave