I understand the players do take a portion of the blame, but in the end there has to be a root cause of so many players failing at Wigan, another example being Fielden (OK maybe he was broken goods), but we all see a radical change in the team when the motivation is workingduring the play offs, and this is the standard our players should achieve every game and putting other teams to the sword once in a while, not playing to an adequate standard every week.

You can't change a whole squad, but you can change how it is run in one switch.

What does he have to do?

Piggy was good tonight, the best hooker on the park.

Pryce was out of his depth at 6 and Noble wants his head testing for even thinking about it never mind doing it. Pryce has been out a long time so to stick him in at 6 when he is just getting back into the game was stupid. Where was the duty of care here?

Fans make their minds up about players all the time. It happens all the time on here and some who defend Pryce in this thread have held negative opinions about other players.

I would like Pryce to succeed here but he has to take some responsibility for that himself but he will face an even more difficult struggle to win over the fans if his coach does things like put him in at 6.

Dave

So you missed him completely failing to make an attempt to catch the bomb on Les Cats 1st attack? For a full back that was terrible.

Or when we had an overlap on attack down the left in the first half and he had a big gap in front of him he put a grubber kick in to groans all around the ground?

He is very enthusiastic and that counts for a lot on message boards but quality-wise I remain unconvinced.

Dave

Good win for you lot there, hopefully Wire can do the same tomorrow

Given the way the league is going, hopefully not but I suspect given Saints injuries you might.

Dave

it's looking good for the semi now both teams hitting form, i think it's going to be a cracker.

Yeah I'd agree with that, were still a little unpredictable but we are improving. A big test of wire's development this season is there test against Saints tonight, if they can overcome that it'll certainly boost wire's confidence.

Im not sure we are, we are winning but i do not think we are hitting form, I guess regardless of the comp (Cup or SL) at this stage of the season the important thing is that we are winning, come play off time though I think we seriously need to improve to have any chance, and i think if we continue to play as we are we will have to catch Wire on a bad day, unless we pull one of our rare inspired performances out of the blue.

I must admit, this is the sort of thing that makes my blood boil with a certain breed of Wigan fan these days, and frankly, it can make me support players, coaches etc who otherwise I would want to leave.

The vitriol that gets poured onto some Wigan representatives - and this board is a good example, though the other one is much worse - is indicative of a juvenile streak among the Wigan fans that would surely make some players have second thoughts about wanting to sign for us.

Some people rip the sh8t out of the same players (coaches, officials, etc) every time they post, in the most personal terms, without any apparent attempt to understand the reasoning behind performances, decision-making etc. Given that anyone can read these message board, they may well be doing much more damage to the club than those they hate.

!00% agree

I keep hearing contrasting views has to how S Tomkins performed last night, was he greedy with the ball or was it a case of players not making themselves available forcing him to run nearly every time, how did he perform last night?

I thought he had a great game. Both in attack and in defence.
On numerous occasions he was stood behind the marker and pulled off some sublime tackles!

If he passes the ball he gets blamed for not taking on the defence and if he runs then he's labeled greedy! I honestly don't know what some Wigan fans want. He is the best prospect I have seen in 15 years of watching Wigan yet people still pick holes in him! I bet the people telling you Tomkins was greedy were the same ones who booed Pryce on his second touch of the ball, yet cream themselves everytime Feka makes his fourth drive of the game in the 75th minute

So true.

Are you ever convinced about anything?

I actually thought the reaction of our fans last night to Pryce was nothing short of a disgrace, this victimisation culture that some of our fans seem to have for certain players in not what I would call supporting the club and needs to change.

Nevertheless I think you go a little too far with your appraisal of Mathers and Pryce.

I'm one of the people that thinks perservering with Pryce will have long term benefits - but potentially world class, thats more than a stretch at this stage and doing well at Saints / scoring past us, come on just who do you support!?!

Mathers was a case of a player not suited to our club and its expectations, he's a confidence player and has found a less pressured environment where he is more suited, good luck to him (except when playing us).

Agreed - Tomkins is a fantastic talent, the problem is that he is setting the bar so high, so early in his career that when he inevitably has a dip in form in a few games then he will be subject to intensive criticism from the same old know all critics with unrealistic expectations.

The Feka adulation is getting nauseating, yes he is a decent player and makes some fabulous runs - but he doesn't do enough over the course of a game for the team, is unfit and lazy in defence. In contrast, Fielden is universally criticised and although admittedly underpar for the best part of two seasons, still puts far more work into both attack and particularly defence for the team over the 80 mins.

Firstly it was a little bit of a semi drunken rant when I got in so maybe I went a little OTT.

But don’t get me wrong I’m a Wigan fan through and through but like Cruncher says the way some players are made scapegoats of and the hatred and complete lack of time shown to them by some sections of our fans makes you support them even more. As weird as it may sound Pryce doing that against us for Saints may shut them up which can’t be a bad thing.

I honestly think Pryce has all the attributes to be a world class player-The size of the guy mixed with his pace as well as his handling skills means he can be a major forced to be reckoned with.

That's too many changes to accommodate one position, IMO. Just have Flanagan on the bench as sub hooker, then we don't have to make wholesale changes all over the field.

No issues with that, done it myself on occasion.


Wigan is no exception from most big clubs, in that it has a vocal minority of idiots who have expectations based on past glories rather than the reality on the field. They are fans, but they decide to articulate their frustrations in a negative manner towards underperforming players rather than getting behind the team and players when struggling. As previously stated, I was disgusted with the conduct of some yesterday. Nevertheless, their views do not have the importance to justify wanting a rival team to have success over our club just to prove a point. In a sense you are just offering validity to their opinions, rather than treating them with the contempt that they deserve.


Fair play, I hope you are right - but I'd rather keep my expectations low and allow him the opportunity to exceed them in time - building him up to be something he isn't at this stage is just fueling the fire for the boo boys.

Well I am convinced you can be relied upon to add nothing to the debate.

Dave

There is no point trying to debate with a know it all.

John

The trouble is does he want to be ? - he's huge, fast and can chuck the ball about but just doesn't look like he can be ar5ed - I slated him earlier in the thread, but last night in front of the posts, ball in hand there was no effort, and no courage..... he just looked like he didn't want it. I can accept that someone can have a bad game, I can't accept it when someone just doesn't try, and that was the way it looked last night.

With his size and his pace he should be steamrollering defences like Tuigamala used to do, but there is nothing there. I'm afraid we've wasted enough time and effort on an interesting but ultimately flawed project, and there are more committed and courageous juniors of our own coming through who we need to promote and support.


When you look an him and his brother one of them looks like he wants to play rugby, and for me the other looks like he is playing rugby because his brother also plays

He's over-rated and should be cut loose...a paper tiger if ever there was one

I am convinced you can be relied upon to add nothing to the debate.

Dave