Re Burgess, i remember seeing him on the pitch for 5/6 mins then either didn't see him again or didn't notice him, embarrassing for what 400k a year !!!!!!!!

LF is the best rugby player at the club by a country mile.
For me the best British second rower in the game.

He doesn't look happy does he. I think he is really struggling. I think he is happy to be here but there is something else wrong with him but can't put my finger on it. If he is carrying a big injury then he needs to be stood down and given the required time needed to get better (if that is even possible) The club must be kicking themselves that they have been stuck with a player who is incapable of playing at the minute. He is a superb prop but he is nowhere near a Wigan player at the minute. This needs resolving soon. How? i don't know.

I like LF, but I think a "country mile" is a bit OTT. I still think Hastings is still the best rugby player in the team and league.

Genuine question - would you say he's better than Bateman, who for me would be the best British 2nd row.

The problem is, he's had over 12 months worth of recovery time. He was banned for the last 12 weeks of the last NRL season and he's hardly played for us during this one & that's before the extended COVID break too.

Agree with what you said about him looking happy to be here. He doesn't seem to be unsettled and that's what points to his problem being something more serious.

With burgess now we have to hope a run of games shows he still has potential

Hopefully next season he improves. Pat Richards came over and was terrible in his first and even his second season I think. Look how he turned out for us.

Sadly with Burgess it seems to be a case of unable to perform rather than out of form. If it was a case of game time or confidence, I'm sure the coaching staff would leave him on for longer than the 10min stints he currently gets.

He is garbage, just dont pick him.

I think you have to give Burgess a run of games and see how things look after that. His marquee status makes me cringe and looks to be a major recruitment error from the club as things stand BUT I do still think he could be a big asset for us coming off the bench this year. If he can provide a few big runs that change some games for us then that will be an improvement at least. Our pack is still too lightweight so I think its worth persevering with him.

Wasn't Craig Smith e in his first season and ended up being one of our best props in recent memory?

Yes but you would probably struggle to find two more different props. Smith was the ultimate professional who kept himself in top shape and was a workhorse on the field who would give you 60-70 minutes a game. The best we can hope for in regards to Burgess is he eventually turns into a decent Feka-esque impact prop. Hence why the marquee contract offer doesn't sound rational as things stand.

Andy Coley when he first came to us was shocking. He managed to turn it around.

Think all we can do is stick with him. We can’t afford for him to be a flop really. If anything he must be showing the young lads a thing or two.

Coley only became good under Madge as did all the pack

I keep harping on about it, but guys like Smith, Coley or even Pat were all playing & were just out of form. That's a world away from what we are seeing with GB.

Burgess isn't unfit & he's always been a big muscular guy. It's just quite simple that he's not able to do what he needs to do because his body won't let him. We've all heard about the serious hip problem and that's impacting his ability to actually play the game - no amount of game time or coaching will change that.

LF for me is better than Bateman
It’s obviously a personal opinion and I rate Bateman but LF has a bit more about him particularly the lines that he runs and his ball handling

I agree. I think that you have summed it up pretty well there
We all went the guy to succeed but he looks miles away from a top player
Only the medical staff probably knows the true reason for his sheer loss any aspect of a professional rugby player
I truely hope that he can turn it around but it looks a forlorn hope at the moment

Just watched the game again, this time with sober eyes



George Burgess comes on and actually does well for the first 10mins or so. Some good go forward and defensive moves. But he just falls off the end of the earth after that. It got to 45mins and I was half thinking of ringing Cheshire Police to report him missing.

I’m a backer of Burgess but he really needs to start delivering for longer than 5mins. I think serious discussions need to take place at seasons end. He clearly has the ability to be impactive and be the type of prop we wanted, but he can’t sustain it anywhere nearly as long as he should. That could be the hip injury or a mental issue. If he can’t turn it around we’ve signed a massive white elephant for 3 seasons. I’m not going to sit and say it was a poor signing, at the time me and this forum were extremely pleased with his signing but in hindsight perhaps we shouldn’t have offered so much money.

Ethan Havard is exceptional. At 19yrs of age with not even half a seasons SL experience, to do 80mins against a classy, tough team like Cas at prop forward is phenomenal. We really do have a future star on our hands here.

Smithies disappointed me in the game. His double headbutt on Millington was cheap and then to run away from it? The crusher tackle was clumsy, he certainly didn’t intend to harm James Clare and I’m glad he’s alright. Smithies is also an exceptional talent but he needs to cut this kind of stuff out of his game. There’s two types of tough and for me he’s towing the line between the Craig Smith type tough and Kelvin Skerrett type tough. Don’t get me wrong, I don’t mind a bit of biff but he looks like he’s deliberately going for it and it’s going to cost him and us if it continues and gets worse.

Normally I hate it when people are OTT, sensationalist or write players off on a whim, but sadly I can't really see any other logical conclusion than he's got a very serious and debilitating injury.

Obviously you've probably guessed that I prefer Bateman, but I will say that no one cuts a line like Faz.

I'll also say that no matter which way you lean in the Faz Vs Bateman debate - there's no other British 2nd row that comes close & I'm happy we'll have both of them next year.

Quite often we've been able to boast the best back row in Super League. Next year with Farrell, Bateman and Havard we should definitely be able to lay claim to that again.

Smithies is going to cost us games soon, no idea what he's trying to prove but Lam/O'Loughlin need to have a word in his ear, same with Partington, nothing wrong with aggression in their games but they've got to channel it in the right way.
Havard already looks class, hopefully we can keep hold of him for as long as possible.

Must admit I have watched Smithies in games and I do not get a lot of the hype about him, he looks a grafter but not much more - I hope I am wrong but to date I do not see anything in him that really makes me feel he is going to be a top class player - a good player maybe. He works hard and defensively is good but I have not seen anything in his go forward , breaks or passing game which marks him out, maybe time will tell. I would put Partington in the same bracket.

Havard looks a class above though - once he fills out and gets more experience he looks to have the makings of a very good prop.

Thought Wigan in this game were patchy, the half-back pairing looked all at sea at times but there were some glimpses of good play at times. Decent result though but more to come from the team I suspect. - the winger disruption didn't help and a few players looked a bit off top form, the frustration is that it is obvious there is more potential in the squad .

As far as G Burgess is concerned, my take is that I was underwhelmed that we signed him, and sadly am not surprised by his current form. Lets hope we can off load him. Smithies is a worry. Yes, he is a good tackler, but I fear he is already getting a reputation for himself, and bad things can happen thereafter, as per Gareth Hock. I agree, though, that I don't see much ball smarts and rugby brain in operation from him.

He is just a grafter but I think that's pretty good for a 19 year old to be honest. If he goes on to carve out a career similar to Cassidy/Hansen I'd definitely take that. In a salary cap era you need some players like that

He's a 19 year old going up against the likes of Watts, Millington, McMeeken, Massey etc. Perfectly understandable for him to be a bit over-aggressive to make up for it. Yes he needs to stay on the pitch but I wouldn't neuter him just because he's got himself binned. He's hardly a penalty machine generally.