Can still be done but the refs never allow a quick restart from the 20 metre line so its a nullified option half the time.

The balls are much lighter and a different shape in union, making them lighter and easier to catch/carry.

League balls are heavier and require more effort to kick them.

Do you have a problem with basic English? I haven't talked about replacing anyone. My point is a general one in that IMO Richards at times displayed a lack of urgency that would have been commented on if it had been displayed by certain other players.

But if you want to talk about replacements and Roberts in the same sentence I'm all for it. How the hell can a free scoring NRL winger on top money be a work in progress? The work in progress is the other winger who plays him off the field every week.

We have lots of back options IMO via Phelps, Goulding and Pryce. Roberts could be replaced easily and IMO should be. He is doing nothing so what could we lose? No threat going forward and makes no tackles in defence.

His first kick for Wigan was a 40/20 too.

Sorry, do we employ big nancys like they do in rah rah or proper men?

For the record 40/20s in recent seasons.

2003 - Seven (Lam 4, Robinson 2, Farrell 1)
2004 - Two (Lam 2)
2005 - None
2006 - Four (Moran 2, Orr 1, O'Loughlin 1)
2007 - Four (Barrett 4)
2008 - One (Barrett 1)
2009 so far - One (Tim Smith v Wakefield)

Looking back at the stats on the SL site - 3-5 40/20s a season is a good tally. So make of it what you will.

The thing is though that a bit of accuracy is also needed along with the big boot. Pat is second to none with drop outs and the big boot downfield but these don't have to have the same level of accuracy as the 40-20. We can all see the accuracy of his goal kicking but can he come up with a decent accuracy for the 40-20, after all it's no good hoofing it 50 yards if it is going to go out on the full. Either way I agree that Wigan should have him practising it with a view to utilising it to our advantage

Roberts would be helped if he had a decent attacking centre inside him

Its obvious he has genuine pace which is something we could use greatly to our advantage

Apart from his intercept try can you ever remember him getting the ball in a decent attacking position? I certainly can't

This is why I think it is crucial we sign a top centre for next season and keep hold off Carmont. I think we potentially have 2 of the best attacking wingers in super league and only one of them is being used to good effect at the moment (a lot of that being down to the player I know)

This is why I think Pryce should be given a got at right centre against Salford. He has to be ready if he was on standby against Leeds

I don't have a problem with simple English, but thanks for the nice unprovoked personal attack. You complain about a lack of urgency, which is all fine and well, but as I said what is our alternative? Roberts: we have tried but clearly you expect far too much of anybody new under the age of 22. Mathers: No just, no. Phelps: Again just not going to happen - is he even fit yet? So I did give a fair point which you refuse to answer, something that would be nice for you to clear up for me in your apparent infinite wisdom. And of course the lack of urgency has been commented on, you did it yourself didn't you? But as I pointed out: why complain when there is nothing better, and you have no idea what to say about it. Either offer an opinion or at least act like an adult.

Of course any player can be a work in progress. Most great wingers have at least a decent centre and centre partnership. At the moment he has had neither. Therefore he needs to build something with a bit of chance, and not be universily hated like Calderwood was. Hence, he could either be great for us or yet another failure on the wing, and is therefore a work in progress. And if Ainscough was not on the other wing he would not be critisised as much, which I am sure would have dissapointed you



Ainscough however, appears to be a bit of saving grace so far this year. He is outstanding.

As for replacing Roberts, your options are Phelps, Goulding and Pryce???
Phelps has played 1, maybe two at a stretch, good game(s) for us, repeatedly gets knocked out, is worse in defence and has been injured recently. Goulding for starters, is a centre. He is also almost universally hated here and by Noble, which I do not agree with, and I do think he should be playing, but not as Roberts replacement and I sure hope you did not mean that

. Pryce, as we all know, is not fit enough yet, and is very slow. Would he have scored the intercept Roberts did? No. Maybe he would have made up forit somewhere else, but unless he has changed massively over the last 3(?) weeks, then he is not ready yet, not by a long shot...

wow personal insults affect me way too much, but arrogant ****s get me so wound up

Your right he is not a work in progress. If it was me I would never have signed him but we did so we should give him chance to settle in before calling for him to be dropped.

Leeds did it last year, think it was in the CC game v Quins at the Stoop. I'm sure it helped give us field position to mount the comeback for the win.

The reason the Leeds one isn;t included in the SL stats is that as far as I'm aware they only include the weekly rounds for some reason.

also why should a team that has been kept in their own half by an excellent defence be given the reward of a new set on their opponents 20 when they weren't even good enough to get there in the first place, pathetic rule, get rid imo

We have never really taken advantage of the rule. Even back in the Faz days.

Pat could easily kick them, he has the power but I don't think he has the place kicking skill to do it.

Maybe Pat should start practicising them

Forget accuracy, forget field position, and forget who has the biggest boot, what no-one has taken into consideration is that rugby players are a bit thick, and to remember to try a 40/20 and then to remember when and where how one is got, is a bit much for your average rugby league player to comprehend.
A rugby league player with brains stands out in this game, and always has done.

Some of them cant even remember how to hold onto a ball without it getting knocked out of their grasp by the faintest of sneezes.

Indeed. Just like the two incidents with the Leeds players: kicking the ball away when a clear 'back to one' had been called by the ref, plus the conceding possession on the last tackle even though the ref shouted 'fifth and last', then when caught look around bewildered whilst refusing to give the ball up.
Thick as pig muck some of them!

40/20 is a brilliant rule and tbf it isn't used by most teams no where near enough. As for Wigan using it, I have no idea why we don't as we have plenty of kickers who are capable of doing so.

I agree that the 40/20 is a great rule that isn't used enough by any club not just ours.

Slightly O/T here and i'm not sure if its been mentioned before, but our kicks on the last on Friday were not the best. Far too many times we fling it back to Richards to boot it and everyone is offside. Seems to me theres a lack of organisation on the last and were not really sure who our "go to" kicker is.

I have never been a fan of the 40/20 as I think it does nothing to reward putting in a decent defensive set of 6.

Take last Friday, Pat puts in a deep kick, we give a good chase and put in a decent effort to keep Leeds well in there own half. Then with just a big boot they are given the ball from a scrum feed less the 20 metres from our line.

I guess this will be a marmite thing though, you either like the rule or you dont.

I think it's a little more complicated than 'just a big boot'. It was a cracking kick and was rightly rewarded.

I like 40/20's, nothing better than seeing your own team reclaim possession on the opposition's 20.

I agree there is a lot of skill involved in placing the kick, but I cant help but feel it rewards the team who have been under the cosh for a set of six.

I think once Sam develops a bit more and takes on more responsibility he will do more kicking in open play

I think he has shown with a few kicks so far he potentially has an excellent kicking game

As someone has mentioned I think there is confusion as to who are 'go to' kicker is

I think at the moment it should be Tommy unless we are deep within our own half where Pat should take over simly because he has a big boot on him

I have confidence in Tommy that when he is our go to man he would deliver the goods and would only get better the more games like this he has

Well pal you've lost me with the first bold bit and hardly claimed the moral high ground with the second!

The reason for my question re you and our language is because you misinterpreted my post. Now, you either can't follow what I posted or, like many on here, twist others' posts to suit yourself. If - and I merely state if - you are as hard of thinking as you appear I'll take you through it all again if you like in as much detail as you can absorb.

Here goes...

I personally thought Pat was too laid back in his performance and said so. [iThis isn't me asking for him to be replaced, OK so far?[/i Good.

Since you happened to mention replacements I stated that I was unhappy with Roberts and put you right on the fact that he isn't a work in progress but was signed as a seasoned pro who would drop right in with the minimum of fuss. [iIMO[/i (and that's what a forum like this is for) he has been disappointing and playing way below his NRL form.

The point you make about needing a good centre is valid but doesn't totally exonerate him. It doesn't explain his hopelessness under the high ball (he cost us the Hull game and bombed another against Leeds). Also has everything achieved by Ainscough been handed to him on a plate by his centre? Of course not.

Finally, I accept the point re Pryce's lack of fitness but feel he must have improved - a feeling based somewhat on comments posted by those who watch the reserves - and is pushing hard for a start. Plus he would have scored the interception.

HTH.

Re the idea of getting Pat to practice place kicking and esp for 40/20 - nice idea IF he is going to play full back on a permanent basis and that is the key. If he is going back to being a winger then it would be a waste.