WHHHOOAAAAAA!!!!!

Have a look at what was posted!

He used Smith's record of tries to games ratio has proof that he was Very Good!

We pointed out that Pryces record was better, not that he was a better player etc etc!

At the point that Pryce went to Union he had an equal record if not better to Smith's, correct or not?

Not - when Pryce went to Union, he hadn't played for England or won individual honours.

Even when scoring those tries you speak of, Bradford fans lamented his lack of heart and lumbering in defence. Funnily enough, the same traits that see him playing in the reserves of a poor SL team.

G1 said he will be a loss to RL, beyond that I just think he is proud of the lads coming through to replace Smith.

So with some of your follow Wigan fans saying Smith is average do you think he is a loss or not?

Of course he will be a loss!

ANY player that chooses to play RU & Not RL is a loss to our game whether international or Amateur!

But the opportunities that RL provides these day are nowhere near enough incentive to keep them in RL.
The same people that stand up for the Salary Cap in it's current format are the same people telling us Wiganners that were wrong in stating that the SC in its current format is Hindering international & SL progression!
See the 30 page thread about SDL and tell me were wrong!

The decline in standards between 1992 and the pitiful 2000 world cup has nothing to do with the salary cap, it didn't exist. In case you've forgotten we lost to NZ 49-6 on home soil in the world cup semi in 2000 to a side that got thrashed by the Aussies in the final, compared to 22-32 in Australia last year to the eventual winners.

But nobody on here ever seems to address the reasons for that decline, because it's easier for Wigan fans to blame the decline on something that they perceive to be helping Saints and holding Wigan back (despite the fact Saints won back to back titles immediately prior to the introduction of the cap and the "spend what you want, free market" approach contributed significantly to Wigan RL now renting a ground from the Latics).

So you agree with me in disagreeing with NickyKiss?, thats that one sorted.


If you think I've come on here to discuss the SC with wigan fans.....
I'd rather pour boiling bleach down my one eyed snake

As I said earlier in this thread, I think he's a loss.

I also think it's a shame that only a few others seem to share this view.

It won't do RL any good in the long run if we invent reasons why players defecting to Union are ' no loss', or if we adopt the unrealistically arrogant Aussie attitude that 'we don't care if they go, because we can always replace them'.

The original poster compared him to Faz and Robinson by saying he won't be as big of a loss as those two which is correct. Smith’s loss is equal to the loss of Ashton, Pryce and Walker who were all good players with a good future in front of them and not superstars.

Smith still is a good youngster as he’s 22 and still trying to find a position of his own in the Leeds team.

After this season, imo, if he would have settled into either the centre or FB spot he would have stopped being a good youngster as he would have been 23/24 and playing in a regular starting position as well as starting to fill his undoubted potential.

There’s a massive difference in players such as Joel Tomkins, Lee Smith, Pryce, Eastmond and Wheeler imo who have yet to play consistently in one position week in week out like Graham, Roby, Atkins, Tim Smith have.

I agree and I also think it’s a loss.

Players like Smith, Pryce, Ashton, Raynor & Walker may not be superstars but they are good enough to enhance the competition which is what we need to do.

The greater number of more talented players we have in the league means the standard increase with it as well.

Losing players like the ones I’ve mentioned above instantly weakens the comp as there is less talent there.

The idea of replacing some one like Smith with a talented youngster doesn’t work as it would have been a much better for RL if both Smith and the talented youngster promoted to replace him were playing RL at the same time. Ok it they may not have been playing for the same team but others teams would have benefited then rather than RU.

It's the ultimate head in the sand philosophy to write it off as not a loss.

Smith played only on the wing until Webb got injured then he moved to FB to cover where he got IIRC 4 consecutive MOM awards for Leeds including the GF, During the off season he was "promoted" to centre where he has played all his games when not still covering for Webb at the start of the season.

I guess we are just going to have to agree to disagree but I think he did reach his potential in league and will be a loss to Leeds and England.

Allow me to simplify my point so you can follow.

Smith is a loss to English Rugby League because he's a damn fine full back, earned international honours on the wing and we're criminally short of good outside backs in RL.

His loss won't be felt as much at Leeds because we have Webb at full back and, behind him a quality young lad called Ben Jones Bishop. Ryan Hall has emerged as an international winger and beyond him we're developing young Jodie Broughton who is coming along quite nicely on loan at Hull. At centre we have a real star yet to emerge in Kallum Watkins.

Now, with the exception of Hall - Watkins, Jones Bishop and Broughton are not yet international class but they are emerging into fine SL players.

Hence, his loss won't be felt as keenly by [iour club[/i as it will by the international side.

Not arrogant at all. Just a fact.

Personally, I'd much preferred Smith stayed in Rugby league even if with another club and played full back. Whilst he's not as good as Webb I think he could have been the best British full back around. Is that arrogant?

And, FWIW, I have never accused Wigan fans of arrogance because, frankly, what have you had to be arrogant about recently?

Out of interest and off topic how do you rate Ben Jones Bishop, heard very good things about the lad my self, and just wondering with him being a fullback an all whether he'll ever get a go at Leeds as long as you have Webb.

Very good. Excellent rewriting of what came over distinctly as a "we're alright Jack" post. You also manage to get a cheap jibe in at Wigan. So superb work all round.

However, as I said in a more recent post, and as Priestman said much more eloquently, making out that losing players like Smith to Union is okay because "we've got better ones coming through", is nonsensical bravado that doesn't consider the preferable state of affairs where good lads like Smith will stay in the game ALONGSIDE the exciting newcomers. (That's presuming the exicting newcomers don't themselves then get pinched, which is highly likely to happen if they're exciting enough).

Anyway, that's my final thought on the matter. I've no intention of debating with someone whose prime motivation seems to be bragging to the world about how good Leeds's youth system is, apparently unaware that losing a good young lad like Smith may only be the start.

At not stage did I say losing Smith to Union was OK. I explicitly said it was bad for the national side and I explicitly said I'd prefer him to stay in league.

Given your lack of comprehension I agree there's little point furthering the discussion.

He's looks like a quality and accomplished full back. Tall but slightly built and needs to build up his physique.

They've tried him on the wing a couple of times but TBH I think he's an out and out FB.

Ideally I'd hope we can retain him, build him up and then when Webb goes in 2 or 3 years he would be the incumbent.

The trick, I guess, is getting him game time to develop in the meantime and keeping him happy.

The salary cap strikes again.

Thnx for that, will be interesting to see if you can time the leaving of Webb with the introduction of him full time to the fullback position.

Correct. All this talk of how he won't be missed is garbage and to some extent misses the point. He is one of the brightest back prospects in the game and just because Kallum Watkins looks like he will make it too is no compensation.

Also, the argument that the clubs voted to freeze the cap is flawed too. All clubs have 1 vote and those that don't or can't develop their own players will happily see Leeds lose another.

Finally, the annoying thing is that at 22 he may well return only to function at a level beneath that which his current potential promises, a la Chev Walker.

Dead right.

I agree with the cap in principal, but it needs to be moved solely to 50% of turnover or raised to around £2.25million. Also, homegrown players under 20 or who have been with the club longer than 7 years shouldnt count on the cap.

Players who have come through the clubs academy be capped at 50% of there wage. Simples.

Without unduly criticising, why has there developed a 'political correctness' regarding the salary cap? Why cap players that have come through the clubs academy at 50%? If the RFL had any balls whatsoever it would take academy developed players off the cap altogether! This would, at a stroke, make it imperative for clubs to invest in youth development and prevent all the 'fudging' that has gone on in recent years. There's only one way to save our game from eventual extinction and that is to force the 'non-contributing' clubs to stop taking the easy option! However, the current administration would prefer to sit back and let standards decline, the game rot and become a feeder for Union whilst bleating about the 'levelling of the competition'! They've levelled it down to little more than a poor game of tick and pass for the most part!

I watched 'Living with the lions' the other night and was reminded of a time when many of the elite of British Rugby Union had played League at some time in their carreer. The likes of Scott Gibbs and Quinnell, Alan Tait, John Bentley et al where plying their trade for the pinnacle in Rugby Union long after we had had the best of them in league. Look at the current Lions. How many will ever come within coo-ee of League. I'm betting none. In fact I'm guessing the only players from League that will appear at the top end of the Union game from here on in are the ones they poach from us in the first place!

Smith is a big loss, I rated him and would have had him at Wigan in a shot TBH. It really bugs me that he is going to Union, ha she not learned from Ashton, Farrell, Walker, Paul etc they don't succeed.

He has been blinded by the cash and in 2 years he will come back a slower, less skilled and out of touch player and go to Hull and will be a shadow of his former self.

Feel exactly the same, that would promote home-grown players, and allow us to keep more once they request what they deserve.

Does anyone think that the RFL and SL chairmen are that bothered about lads crossing codes? I think that they could not give a tuppenny flip TBH, .hence why they have again voted to keep it as it is for another year.

They get to have the prestige of running a club with minimal expense, the fact that all the other clubs are adhering to the same rules means that they can all sit in the comfort zone financially.
Oh yeah they might bleat a little when they have to let players go “because of the Cap” but that is only to keep the fans happy.
I don’t care who the player is, be it a current MOS or a 13 year old who plays at school, if they change to Rah Rah it is a loss to RL.

Quote ="inside_man"Lee Smith likely to head to union after his contract finishes at the end of the year.... news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_l ... 108796.stm There goes another one!'" not going to sift through the rest of the posts but seems the salary cap is getting the blame again, or maybe its just greed

Quote ="inside_man"Lee Smith likely to head to union after his contract finishes at the end of the year.... news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_l ... 108796.stm There goes another one!'" not going to sift through the rest of the posts but seems the salary cap is getting the blame again, or maybe its just greed