I'd take Leeds' last three seasons over ours. WCC>League>CC>beaten finalists>Minor premiership

Oh stop spoiling the fun

I didn't miss his point. I just meant that the final position in the league that matters to me is finishing first. I would rather finish 5th and win the Grand Final than finish 1st and not win it.

Consequently, I would rather finish 1st and not win the grand final than finish 5th and not win the grand final.

Personally, I am happy with the current play off structure and I would be overjoyed if some team actually managed to win it from 8th. Even if that means they beat Leeds to do it.

The reason is that for this to be possible, we will have reached a point where all top 8 teams are of a similar quality.

See I think the opposite, if more clubs were equal then even more reason not to have a playoff because any team can beat the other on their day. The league sorts the men from the boys

If the same thing happens again this season with the likes of Leeds, or anyone else, being crowned unworthy Champions; I think your words will be even more relevant, and the damage to the game will be made even more apparent next year.

Because Widnes replaced Crusaders and because Saints were back in St Helens

At one time Leeds would have been 'just a good cup team' now they are trying to argue they are one of the greatest teams ever!
People pour scorn on Wigan 80s/90s dominance but Wigan had to finish top every single year producing every single week not finish 2nd, or even more hilariously 5th, win 2 or 3 hard games by a few points and be declared champions.
The Challenge Cup proved just could deliver in the one off big games and the league championship proved you could do it week in week out consistently for 9 months.

Now the playoffs make the Championship just Sky's version of the Challenge Cup

Well, as a fan who saw his team frequently hammered by Wigan, I've not know anyone who's poured scorn over the Wigan team of the late 80's / early 90's. The Wigan team of those day's was phenominal & I wish Leeds had played half that well. However, that was then and this is now. All because Wigan were great then, doesn't stop Leeds from being great now. Arguing as to one team being better than the other is as daft as arguing over who has the hardest dad. They're never going to fight (Compete) so why not agree they are both great teams and leave it at that.

Having said that, during this "unprecedented" period of Leeds success their average home league gates have fallen by over 2000 (17043 - 1494icon_cool.gif since 2008, and Wigan's have increased from 14505 - 16043 over the same period. So someone somewhere must be unhappy with poor league form / happy with consistent league form.

Earlier in the thread I mentioned Django may have. "Missed the point".

"I for one would not like my team to show the same form as Leeds regular seasons have for the last 3 seasons or so and the go on to win the GF. Mainly beacuse I dont belive long term it's condusive to long term success of the game as a whole."

I couldn't quite word what I meant correctly, I think you've summed it up just about right!

But let's not worry about excellence week in week out shall we.
Lets make the game "competitive" (bear in mind as I said to my saints mate in oz08' we could get a game up outside of this pub now and it could be competitive, but it wouldn't mean it would be any good!)

Lets structure the play offs in a way were we can get more games in to help the finances, good job really as it covers the dwindling play off attendances as well.

Davao has made some rather good points regarding someone somewhere best care about the weekly rounds as without them there will one day be no play offs.

I'd put forward that I'm in total agreement and despite what seems like a lot of fans concerns over many issues with the game, rather than get down about it I'd rather look forward to what will be a very interesting game on Friday.
I can't understand why anyone wouldn't be excited about it?

...either that or some people are suffering under the worst recession for years and can't afford to go and would rather pay the mortgage/rent/put food on the table than attend the game.

Whatever the real reason is we can only speculate (Until someone actually goes out and asks those who have stopped attending.) As a Leeds fan from the 80's I have perhaps become so acclimatised to lousy results that I don't actually care about the league placing. The things I care about are the WCC, the League Leaders Shield, the Challenge Cup and the Super League Championship. In that asscending order.

27 games of irrelevance, why should anyone bother with the game at all? Just turn up for a few finals and the odd game at Easter. Seems at odds with spending a lot of time posting on here though.

Wigan, a recession-free zone!

Just two points. Firstly, if the 27 rounds were trully an irrelevance, then you would be able to win the Grand Final after losing all 27. If you can accept that this is not possible, then you are acknowledgeing that the rounds are actually relevant.



Secondly, as a long time Leeds fan, welcome to my world. I spent years supporting my time with no hope of coming top due to Wigan!



EDIT:
I've just re-read your post & I believe you may have misunderstood me. I am not saying the weekly rounds are irrelevant, I'm just saying that winning the silverware is MORE relevant. I'm also pointing out that I'm used to my team not finishing high in the league as I have been conditioned by the performance of Leeds in the 80's & 90's when we won sod-all! (For the past decade I keep expecting to wake up and discover that I actually dreamt Leeds winning all of these titles!

)

The capacity at Headingley up until this season has been reduced during that time for safefty reasons.

How many sell outs did you have in that period?
If the answer is Zero then your point is irellevant

It's not irrelevant it's just another factor. The original point someone was making was that they believed the Leeds attendance had fallen because people thought the weekly matches weren't important. If this was the case, then we would see this throughout all of the clubs. Instead we find some have gone up and some have gone down. I fact, more people attended Super League last year than they did the year before.

The only way to know why those people have stopped attending the matches is to ask each one in turn.

Crusaders replaced by Widnes, and St Helens back at home would have boosted attendances. The end of this seasons figures should be interesting...

Certainly will. Again though, unless you question each person who doesn't turn up, the reason they stopped attending is as likely to be down to the recession as it is any perceived "irrellevance" of the weekly rounds.

As you said, without asking every person you will never know but that means your assertion is just as invalid. both are opinions, and all are entitled to them. My view its a combination of the two, and i don't think the current format helps. If the playoffs were the doggies doodahs that the powers that be would have us believe, they would be packed to the gills. Whats irrefutable, is that they are very poorly attended.

I couldn't agree more. My view is it's a combination of loads of reasons, the aforementioned two just being a couple of them.

However, when a fan of Leeds (the champions 6 times recently) for 30 years, says that "I have perhaps become so acclimatised to lousy results that I don't actually care about the league placing" it is clear to me that the competition structure is mainly at fault,

I'm sorry, but you are misunderstanding me. I became acclimatised to not finishing top by the Leeds teams of the 80's & 90's, the ones I grew up watching. NOT the current Leeds team!

This view of mine was formed by the old league structure, before Super League started. It's a result of constantly seeing Wigan win everything and knowing we had no chance!



...thats possibly why I like the top 8 play-offs. It gives more teams a chance af actually winning something!

Now I'm puzzled. Maybe your being a Leeds fan from the (not so) fair city of Preston is the cause of this confusing logic.

Ha ha ha. I may live here, but I'm not from here. (...and yes, it is a dump!)

To put it simply, I watched my team go 25ish years with average results so I am used to the average results. It does not mean I enjoy my rugby less & it doesn't mean I don't watch my team every chance I get. It also doesn't mean that I don't want my team to win, I just don't think the world will end if we don't.

Basically, as an old time Leeds fan I'm not used to success and I view any we get as a bonus!