Mathers isn't garbage, however, he does need to have some top class players around him to allow him some confidence, which he had at Wire & Leeds and didn't have at Wigan or won't have at Castleford either.

He won't struggle or indeed be 'garbage', but he isn't the type of signing to suddenly make a side significantly any better.

I have never doubted his hunger or his effort but a proffesional rugby league player should be dropping easy catches on a regular basis and looking scared to go for the ball. He is a poor player, why else would Tony Smith get rid and replace him with someone better, he was the only weak link in the wire defence. His tackling is poor and he even throws out stupid passes. He doesn't score enough tries from a FB and doesn't link up in the line to create tries like Tomkins, Hodgeson and Webb.

End of the thread.

.....He is not garbage.....Any player who has the bottle or talent to play at Super League level is definitely not garbage and you are a fool for even daring to use that term for ANY player.

Yes, us non-Wiganers all get it....Mathers had a rough time of it at Wigan, of that there is no doubt, but just because he dared to under-perform for you lot does not make him garbage.

Being a Warrington fan, if we are using your analogy, then there are plenty of players who I could diss over the years, as being awful players, if I based their talents on their Wire performances.....Steve Roach, arguably the best prop forward in World Rugby in the 80's, was an absolute donkey in a Wire shirt, yet I wouldn't even consider questioning his talents....David Kidwell, unrecognisable from the NRL version of the same player, could be cited as being 'garbage' by some Wire fans....The list goes on, and the same probably applies for most clubs, but to simply label somebody garbage is insulting and disrespectful.

And just because Tony Smith chooses to replace him with 'someone better' does not make him a poor player....We have replaced Hicks with Joel Monaghan....Does that make Hicks a poor player?.....Similarly, we replaced Martin Gleeson with Chris Bridge in the centres and suddenly we have 2 Challenge Cups in the trophy cabinet.....What does that make Gleeson?...

A Super League Champion...

Exactly, and definitely not a poor player based on the thinking of some, who think that a released player automatically makes them that....

To be fair, Mathers was utter garbage at Wigan, he used to shy away from catching bombs, & making one on one tackles, what kind of fullback does that? Then he goes to Wire and plays like he did at Leeds, its pretty justified why Wigan fans feel so annoyed with him.

But some players just cant handle the pressure at such a big club.

He was far too mistake-prone, both at Wigan and Wire, to make up for any of the positive things he did. You could guarantee 2 or 3 "Bloody hell, Mathers!" moments in every game.

One of my favourites from last season is the fumble that allowed Pat to go in from 90 yards against the wolfs...

Talk about a kettle blowing off steam.

What are you on, mate?

Were you one of those deluded Wire chumps who was loudly trumpeting that Warrington had got the best part of the deal when we swapped Mathers for Gleeson? Is that what this is about? Are you just not prepared to admit you were wrong?

I'd generally agree that no-one who plays in SL can be total garbage. But I also used to think that no-one could play full-back who routinely missed tackles and dropped high balls, and yet Mathers proved the exception to that rule too.

And come on ... comparisons with Steve Roach and David Kidwell! Give me a break. They were donkeys in your shirt because they were here for a holiday, and the only people who didn't seem to realise that were you lot.

Cheers cause I couldn't be bothered.

What is the problem with you lot accepting that Mathers is not 'garbage'......Yes, we've had it until our balls ache from you lot, about how rotten he performed in a Wigan shirt, but considering that within 3 months of leaving the JJB (or whatever you call your football stadium) he had a Wembley winners medal, then he can't be that bad.....Also, add to this he has been signed up by 2 highly respected coaches (Noble & Smith), tells me he can't be total garbage?

As for the deal and who came out best?.....Well, at the time it was convenient for all concerned....You needed rid of a confidence-shattered Mathers,we wanted rid of a bad-influence Gleeson, a bit of cash thrown in and all things considered, both sides have come out smiling, with trophies aplenty.....



Just as one extra thing on Mathers?.....If he was really, really garbage (as you Cherry & White experts say), then why does he continue to have a Super League career?....I hate to be patronising, but if you lot knew as much as you all reckon, then you'd be running the clubs instead of the guys who continually give Mathers contracts.

So has Ricky Bibey...........

Don't forget his last act in a Wire shirt, throwing the pass that Cudjoe intercepted!

And continually fail to renew them. How soon before it happens again?

We didn't miss him today. Granted, it was a match against Championship opposition but we just looked refreshed. We thought we would miss Longy when he went but we didn't. Leon just stepped right up. And he gave a commanding performance today too. It is possible that losing Cunningham could be very good for the team as a whole as it will allow other players to spread their wings a bit. Things might change next week when we meet a first team Hudds but we didn't look remotely lost today. Far from it.

For such a bad player, he'll have had a far better Rugby career than any of us who slate him on here?....

Those two idiots Jedward are and will be more successful in the music business than anyone else who posts on here.

Doesn't make them any good though, does it?

They're superb Matty

.....Even I can manage a chuckle at that.....

1. Wigan
2. Dire
3. St Helens
4. Leeds

Can't see Saints being champions this year. Our best chance win be in the Challenge Cup. Wigan v Warrington GF IMO. I'll send any Dire fans maps with the route to get to Old Trafford if they want considering they've never been there!

1 Warrington

2 Leeds

3 Saints

4 Wigan

I don't think it'll be as easy as some people are saying, but if we finish as low as 4th I'll show my arris

If that does happen, please let me know when the "event" will happen. I'll stay indoors and keep all the curtains firmly closed.

Make sure you shave it first.

One of the reasons we missed Cunningham when he wasn't on the pitch last year is that we lacked size and grunt up front - this is mitigated in 2011 by bringing in LMS and Perry.

Roby was brilliant for us last season and will surprise the "only an impact sub" knockers this season.

Saints look a stronger and better balanced squad in 2011 IMO, and word has it that we look in far better shape physically (which isn't difficult compared to 2010 when half our players had beer bellies).

Big shout, but I wouldn't be at all surprised to see us reach both finals.