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| Quote ="Fames" I am afraid there are serious doubts about IL's and Wane's recruitment policy. '"
There are and I was expressing some of them before the season started mainly about the centres given Thornley is injured and still inexperienced, Gelling isn't one and at the time I posted Sarge had done nothing of note there. At least he looks better than I expected.
The trouble is you have to throw in Williams at 6 as well plus Budgie is also inexperienced.
There is a lot of inexperience in first 13 slots. Going with an inexperienced 6 might be OK if the rest of the team were seasoned pros. He'd probably look a star in the 2010 or 2011 team with Deacon alongside him and lot of other experienced players about but he is one of many changes.
The question is who's fault is this? Did IL tell Wane that was the team he had so get on with it or did Wane convince IL it would be alright on the night? As I have said before I tend to think Wane believes his own propaganda at times and convinces himself that players like Williams are not just going to be OK but will be the next Sam Tomkins. I doubt IL [idoesn't[/i have a say as he holds the cheque book but I think Wane has said enough about this squad for me to think he really did believe it was all going to be fine and it was mostly his choice..
Quote Is it a happy dressing room or are the players getting tired of Wane's methods?'"
It would not surprise me. It's also clear some players wanted to leave Wigan and I am referring to Goulding and Taylor here. Taylor isn't at Hull FC despite supposedly wanting to return to Hull as his GF was homesick and Goulding clearly wanted away. Why? I don't think homesick or new challenge are realistic reasons to leave a club expected to be challenging for the honours.
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| If I remember correctly IL stated at the pre-season dinner that this was the finest team so far during his reign. Bizzare at worst, wishful thinking at best there Ian.
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| The team next week is going to be interesting.......!
Where does Wane go from here?
Will he give Hampshire a chance at 6 - or just play him at 1 to give Bowen a rest, so he is "right" for Good Friday?!!
And what about the forwards.....?
Might they persuade Jordan James to come out of retirement to add some "experience"....? At least he would be cheap as he is already on the payroll!
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| Quote ="DaveO"
It would not surprise me. It's also clear some players wanted to leave Wigan and I am referring to Goulding and Taylor here. Taylor isn't at Hull FC despite supposedly wanting to return to Hull as his GF was homesick and Goulding clearly wanted away. Why? I don't think homesick or new challenge are realistic reasons to leave a club expected to be challenging for the honours.'"
If only we had Goulding now.
He'd add some much needed experience to our back line and it would allow us to move Gelling into the pack to give us extra size.
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| Quote ="MattyB"If I remember correctly IL stated at the pre-season dinner that this was the finest team so far during his reign. Bizzare at worst, wishful thinking at best there Ian.'"
He must have learnt that trick from Hetherington, who says that every year.
As a Leeds fan, couldn't believe how bad Wigan were tonight. We should have battered you & it's our own fault we didn't. Wane said post-match that Wigan "dominated Leeds for long periods", but I've no idea what game he was watching if he thought that. Even when Wigan were ahead they'd had one try-scoring chance to about four that Leeds managed to butcher.
If you're talking about halves, I thought Green was the best half-back in the league and it's obvious to an outsider that he carried Smith through last season.
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| Quote ="MattyB"If I remember correctly IL stated at the pre-season dinner that this was the finest team so far during his reign. Bizzare at worst, wishful thinking at best there Ian.'"
End of the day you can only replace quality with projects and youngsters for so long then it will eventually start to catch up with you!
•wane stated after the WCC defeat to roosters we wern't big enough, why after the defeat to the Broncos was he still saying were not big enough??
•discipline cost us the grand final,why now 5 months on is it still a big problem?
• what the hell is this "Different" type of rugby he talked about actually achieving??
Sadly although he is wigan through and through his limitations as a coach are being exposed....he's the sort of guy that will tell you to run through a brickwall all day what he doesn't know is how to tell you to get round it.
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| Quote ="wiganstripleL"End of the day you can only replace quality with projects and youngsters for so long then it will eventually start to catch up with you!
•wane stated after the WCC defeat to roosters we wern't big enough, why after the defeat to the Broncos was he still saying were not big enough??
•discipline cost us the grand final,why now 5 months on is it still a big problem?
• what the hell is this "Different" type of rugby he talked about actually achieving??
Sadly although he is wigan through and through his limitations as a coach are being exposed....he's the sort of guy that will tell you to run through a brickwall all day what he doesn't know is how to tell you to get round it.'"
Couldn't agree more.
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| Quote ="wiganstripleL"
Sadly although he is wigan through and through his limitations as a coach are being exposed....he's the sort of guy that will tell you to run through a brickwall all day what he doesn't know is how to tell you to get round it.'"
Summed him up in a nutshell.
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| Love to see us go a little left field and get someone like Garth Brennan in as the next coach.
42 year old academy coach at Penrith who was linked the Newcastle Job when Bennett left. Seems to be highly thought of down under and it's just a matter of time before gets an NRL head coach gig.
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| Quote ="craigizzard"He must have learnt that trick from Hetherington, who says that every year.
As a Leeds fan, couldn't believe how bad Wigan were tonight. We should have battered you & it's our own fault we didn't. Wane said post-match that Wigan "[udominated Leeds for long periods[/u", but I've no idea what game he was watching if he thought that. Even when Wigan were ahead they'd had one try-scoring chance to about four that Leeds managed to butcher.
If you're talking about halves, I thought Green was the best half-back in the league and it's obvious to an outsider that he carried Smith through last season.'"
I thought the same
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| Waney can try as many combinations of halves as he likes but they won't get anywhere until he sorts out the forwards. First half only two in a tackle, Leeds offloaded at will and made 60 mtrs every set.
Mossop has to play to get consistancy.
Mic Mac doesn't look fit, he looks tired out or injured. Logan to start v Wakey.
Clubb I thought was our best forward.
If Crosby is fit next week he should start v Wakey as he's big at 6'4".
Joel is inconsistent in the tackle and ball in hand runs too far out wide taking the room Gelling and his wingman should have. That needs sorting and quick.
Farrell needs benching and replacing in the 2nd row by Gelling.
Don't know who should go to 13, Bateman is being asked to play a different position every week.
Last week Williams was a bench 9 this he's 6. Last week Patrick was 13 this week it's Bateman.
No wonder nothing is working.
As for the halves I'd go with Hampshire at 6, Williams at 7 with Smith on the bench.
The Latics play later today then no game at the DW 'till GF. The pitch might, just might be in better condition to give our fast backs the space and sure footwork they need.
First job is 3 and 4 man tackles to stop the offload. That's a big part of Saints game, if we give Walmsley & Co the room we gave Cuthbertson then it will a very long 80 mins.
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| What about the forgotten man that is Sam Hopkins?
He's a big unit but I guess he doesn't wrestle well vs Wane in training.
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| Quote ="sergeant pepper"What about the forgotten man that is Sam Hopkins?
He's a big unit but I guess he doesn't wrestle well vs Wane in training.'"
He's back at Leigh full time.
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| Quote ="MattyB"He's back at Leigh full time.'"
I'd have hoped we had the option to recall him if required.
Good bit of business from the club there. Sign a guy for 2 years and don't give him one shot at a SL or CC game.
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| Yes, nobody has impressed that much this season, but it doesn't alter the fact that Wigan were very poor.
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| I don't think you can really blame the halves at the moment. They've got nothing to work with. We're not making any real impact down the middle and the play the ball is slow and laboured. As a result the attacking line is getting bunched together and flat. There's not much the halves can do. If they try to organise the players into a deeper attacking line we're going to lose ground. It's too hard to be expansive from a slow play the ball yet Wane's tactics generally involve sweeping moves from side to side.
There's also no real attacking threat provided from fullback. Bowen is skilful. He proved that with a lovely catch and pass to Gelling before Smith's try. Unfortunately though he's just not offering a big enough threat and that is further stifling our attack.
Williams had some good moments but also got caught in possession too many times. We have to be patient though. That's a result of playing U19's rugby for a strong side. Often it was his best option to run the ball or take it into contact and it will take a while for him to break that habit. What he'll need is consistent game time and reviews after the game to show where he's going wrong and what needs to improve. All of our young halves will require patience to fix areas of their game.
If Hampshire was playing he'd probably need to be given time to improve his defence. Powell will need time to develop a more effective running game when required and use it more often. Some people seem to expect ready made halves but that's seriously unlikely these days. Whoever plays there will probably need patience and we will probably have a weakness there at times. It's just the sacrifice you have to make to bring through a young halfback while trying to remain a top side. Wigan and other clubs need to do it though or we might as well kiss goodbye to ever having a decent international side. The short term thinking of clubs in this regard will get us nowhere.
If we can get the forwards to make more of an impact down the middle and increase the speed of the ruck we might be able to judge Williams and Smith (or any of the other halves who get a game) on what they are really capable of.
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| Quote ="DaveO"
It would not surprise me. It's also clear some players wanted to leave Wigan and I am referring to Goulding and Taylor here. Taylor isn't at Hull FC despite supposedly wanting to return to Hull as his GF was homesick and Goulding clearly wanted away. Why? I don't think homesick or new challenge are realistic reasons to leave a club expected to be challenging for the honours.'"
Perhaps being yelled at and bullied by your coach 18 times a week isn't conducive to a good dressing room atmosphere. Man management is a complex science, Wane seems to have a single way of behaving and treating his players.
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| Quote ="EHW"Perhaps being yelled at and bullied by your coach 18 times a week isn't conducive to a good dressing room atmosphere. Man management is a complex science, Wane seems to have a single way of behaving and treating his players.'"
The only player I have ever heard criticise Wane is Gareth Hock, the rest of them would run their blood to water for him. It's easy to knock the coach when things are going bad, but when we turn our form around the same people will be waxing lyrical about him. The knee-jerk reaction on here has been laughable. Ancient and Loyal? Yeah right
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| Quote ="bazdev"The only player I have ever heard criticise Wane is Gareth Hock, the rest of them would run their blood to water for him. It's easy to knock the coach when things are going bad, but when we turn our form around the same people will be waxing lyrical about him. The knee-jerk reaction on here has been laughable. Ancient and Loyal? Yeah right'"
Running your blood to water for the coach sometimes isn't enough mate. If the is no quality in key posotions then effort Isnt enough.
I said before the start season that green shouid have been replaced and how I thought your pack was to small and lacked quality.
The is no doubt wane can get his players up for games but I'm not sure he's clever enough rugby wise to be able to change things when not going your way.
Only time will tell. I don't believe your anywhere near as bad as you lot making out. I'm pretty sure you'll make top 4. Teams have blips and Wigan having theirs now.
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| Quote ="St pete"Running your blood to water for the coach sometimes isn't enough mate. If the is no quality in key posotions then effort Isnt enough.
I said before the start season that green shouid have been replaced and how I thought your pack was to small and lacked quality.
The is no doubt[u wane can get his players up for games[/u but I'm not sure he's clever enough rugby wise to be able to change things when not going your way.
Only time will tell. I don't believe your anywhere near as bad as you lot making out. I'm pretty sure you'll make top 4. Teams have blips and Wigan having theirs now.'"
at the moment he isnt
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| Quote ="bazdev"The only player I have ever heard criticise Wane is Gareth Hock, the rest of them would run their blood to water for him. It's easy to knock the coach when things are going bad, but when we turn our form around the same people will be waxing lyrical about him. The knee-jerk reaction on here has been laughable. Ancient and Loyal? Yeah right'"
Spot on mate
What world are these people living in?
I got back from the game late and switch this on this morning to see pages and pages of this nonsense already posted.
Your coach wins the double then follows it up with another GF. We are six games into a new season for heavens sake.
Ancient and dis-loyal is right.
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| Quote ="Aboveusonlypie"Spot on mate
What world are these people living in?
I got back from the game late and switch this on this morning to see pages and pages of this nonsense already posted.
Your coach wins the double then follows it up with another GF. We are six games into a new season for heavens sake.
Ancient and dis-loyal is right.'"
Get from up his rectum.
He had the easiest run to the CC final and fluked the GF due to injuries.
Other than that he's be an abject failure. Last season was a poor one apart from a run of 5 games at the end of the year. As much as you don't like it he's judged on results and most importantly trophies and apart from that one season he's not delivered.
Funny how fans think he can't do anything wrong just because he's from Wigan. It's laughable as the results and performances are obviously going against him.
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| Quote ="St pete"Teams have blips and Wigan having theirs now.'"
I fear you are too kind, sir!
Poor discipline, even dropped passes; these are the kind of thing in early season that can be worked on in training and ironed out, to some extent. But your pack just not making the required effort, that's a different story.
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| It's not the losses that are troubling it is the standard of performance, tactics employed and recruitment policy.
We play as if we have a team full of monsters in the pack despite being very lightweight. Our halves run from touch line to touch line offering no go forward at all. The basic skills of the players are declining in front of our eyes.
Our recruitment strategy is deeply flawed and short sighted.
It is all well and good saying the players will run through walls for him, but if they are not prepared by him with the right tools then effort is pointless as it will not lead to good performance.
In relation to the halves in my opinion Smith has now used up his previous seasons form justification for selection.
Next game I would love to see Williams at 7 and Rocky at 6.
Williams and Smith doesn't work, I don't believe it ever will as they are too similar in their style.
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| It's a really strange situation.
I can see valid points from both sides of the camp.
1st two or three sets against Leeds, I'm pretty sure our props didn't make one carry. They just don't seem involved enough and we rely too much on the wings and centres.
Our passing and last tackle options when under pressure isn't great.
However, it's the mistakes that are killing us. Two kick offs - possession handed straight to Leeds. Soft pens and poor handling.
Cut those out and even with the weaknesses in the side we become far more competitive.
We're just putting ourselves under too much pressure to judge the quality of the team properly.
How much is basil skills training, how much is lack of application by the players, how much is inexperience especially under pressure? Difficult to say.
Smith isn't showing the leadership needed at this point, but I'm not sure the answer is replacing him with Hampshire.
What I do believe is that those people who criticise Wane's coaching as just bawling atbthe players are wide off the mark. He pays lots of attention to detail, one on one coaching, player skills, etc. he's not an old style shout atbthe players type of coach.
We made good breaks and both wings looked dangerous. Logan had one of his best games. If the ref had played on with the free play following Bowens pass from the floor, the complexion of the game changes.
My gut feel is that patience and small changes are required and we will be competitive again. Throwing everything out is not the way to go at this stage.
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