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Was the knock on decision wrong? Wane doesn’t think so, under the current rules. He has a point, there is no requirement for a knock on to require a deliberate act. Compare to RU where I believe “intent” is the difference between a penalty or a scrum for a knock on.
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| Quote ="Captain Hook"Was the knock on decision wrong? Wane doesn’t think so, under the current rules. He has a point, there is no requirement for a knock on to require a deliberate act. Compare to RU where I believe “intent” is the difference between a penalty or a scrum for a knock on.'"
To the letter of the law it is a knock on, but the lack of intent makes it hard to stomach because you can't get your arms out the way in that instance. If Austin is judged to lose it behind him as he is going down for example and it hits Tommy's arm as it did then Wire get 6 more tackles. |
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| Quote ="Egg Chasing"To the letter of the law it is a knock on, but the lack of intent makes it hard to stomach because you can't get your arms out the way in that instance. If Austin is judged to lose it behind him as he is going down for example and it hits Tommy's arm as it did then Wire get 6 more tackles.'"
I would have been gutted if it was my team that had had that decision go against them. The problem would be trying to come up with a definition that allowed for intent. The vast majority of knock ons are accidental rather than deliberate. |
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| Quote ="Captain Hook"I would have been gutted if it was my team that had had that decision go against them. The problem would be trying to come up with a definition that allowed for intent. The vast majority of knock ons are accidental rather than deliberate.'"
I would keep it simple and go with "was there obvious separation between the ball carrier and the ball when the tackler hit the ball with his arms?" On Sunday the Warrington player had not obviously released the ball so I would have said lost in the collision play on. We over complicate the game at times. |
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| Quote ="Captain Hook"I would have been gutted if it was my team that had had that decision go against them. The problem would be trying to come up with a definition that allowed for intent. The vast majority of knock ons are accidental rather than deliberate.'"
Slightly OT but deliberate knock ons should be a penalty and potentially yellow card as per rugby union. Knocks downs by wingers that lead to scrums are not big enough rewards for an attacking team who may have worked an overlap for instance |
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| Quote ="pk"Slightly OT but deliberate knock ons should be a penalty and potentially yellow card as per rugby union. Knocks downs by wingers that lead to scrums are not big enough rewards for an attacking team who may have worked an overlap for instance'"
And that is why we have the rule as we do today because wingers would feign to be wrapping their arm in the tackle and would end up with the ball. Jon Wells when he was some form of RFL player representative stated that all players go for the ball and here we are with the rule as it is. |
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| Quote ="pk"Slightly OT but deliberate knock ons should be a penalty and potentially yellow card as per rugby union. Knocks downs by wingers that lead to scrums are not big enough rewards for an attacking team who may have worked an overlap for instance'"
A deliberate knock on is a penalty. |
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| Quote ="Bigredwarrior"A deliberate knock on is a penalty.'"
no its not |
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It doesn’t need a change in the rules, a tackler putting his arm in a position to prevent a pass has been a knock on if contact is made with the ball for quite a few years. It is considered that the defender has made a play at the ball on an assumption a pass will be made. I don’t have an issue with that.
All it needs is common sense from the official, the ball was lost in contact and happened to touch TL, he didn’t make a play at the ball so no knock on.
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Quote ="Pieman"no its not'"
It is mate.
Deliberate 1. A player shall be penalised if he deliberately knocks on or passes forward.
Accidental 2. If, after knocking-on accidentally, the player knocking-on regains or kicks the ball before it touches the ground, a goal post, cross bar or an opponent, then play shall be allowed to proceed.
Otherwise play shall stop and a scrum shall be formed except after the fifth play-the-ball.
Charge-down 3. To charge-down a kick is permissible and is not a knock-on.
Heading the ball 4. It is illegal to head the ball in a forward direction.
https://www.rugby-league.com/the_rfl/ru ... rward_pass |
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Quote ="Pieman"no its not'"
It is mate.
Deliberate 1. A player shall be penalised if he deliberately knocks on or passes forward.
Accidental 2. If, after knocking-on accidentally, the player knocking-on regains or kicks the ball before it touches the ground, a goal post, cross bar or an opponent, then play shall be allowed to proceed.
Otherwise play shall stop and a scrum shall be formed except after the fifth play-the-ball.
Charge-down 3. To charge-down a kick is permissible and is not a knock-on.
Heading the ball 4. It is illegal to head the ball in a forward direction.
https://www.rugby-league.com/the_rfl/ru ... rward_pass | |
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Quote ="Bigredwarrior"It is mate.
Deliberate 1. A player shall be penalised if he deliberately knocks on or passes forward.
Accidental 2. If, after knocking-on accidentally, the player knocking-on regains or kicks the ball before it touches the ground, a goal post, cross bar or an opponent, then play shall be allowed to proceed.
Otherwise play shall stop and a scrum shall be formed except after the fifth play-the-ball.
Charge-down 3. To charge-down a kick is permissible and is not a knock-on.
Heading the ball 4. It is illegal to head the ball in a forward direction.
https://www.rugby-league.com/the_rfl/ru ... rward_pass'"
how many penalties have you seenfor someone sticking out a hand and knocking on the ball? Every forward pass is intentional as they throw the ball. So it should be a penalty not a scrum? |
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Quote ="Bigredwarrior"It is mate.
Deliberate 1. A player shall be penalised if he deliberately knocks on or passes forward.
Accidental 2. If, after knocking-on accidentally, the player knocking-on regains or kicks the ball before it touches the ground, a goal post, cross bar or an opponent, then play shall be allowed to proceed.
Otherwise play shall stop and a scrum shall be formed except after the fifth play-the-ball.
Charge-down 3. To charge-down a kick is permissible and is not a knock-on.
Heading the ball 4. It is illegal to head the ball in a forward direction.
https://www.rugby-league.com/the_rfl/ru ... rward_pass'"
how many penalties have you seenfor someone sticking out a hand and knocking on the ball? Every forward pass is intentional as they throw the ball. So it should be a penalty not a scrum? | |
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Mate you said the rule needed changing to make a deliberate knock on a penalty. I said it already is and you point blank came back at me with no it isn’t.
The rule is there for everyone to see. A deliberate knock on is indeed a penalty but you’re right, referees rarely award a penalty. Their interpretation of the law therefore must be that the winger is trying to intercept the pass. We don’t need a rule change, we need the rule to be applied by the official.
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| Quote ="Bigredwarrior"Mate you said the rule needed changing to make a deliberate knock on a penalty. I said it already is and you point blank came back at me with no it isn’t.
The rule is there for everyone to see. A deliberate knock on is indeed a penalty but you’re right, referees rarely award a penalty. Their interpretation of the law therefore must be that the winger is trying to intercept the pass. We don’t need a rule change, we need the rule to be applied by the official.'"
I never said it needed changing as its not penalised |
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| Quote ="Pieman"I never said it needed changing as its not penalised'"
You said ‘Slightly OT but deliberate knock ons should be a penalty’. I replied by saying that a deliberate knock on already is a penalty and you said ‘no it’s not’. Forgive me if I misunderstood anything? It doesn’t matter much to be fair. |
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Interesting, I don’t think I have ever seen a penalty for a deliberate knock on in RL.
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| Quote ="Captain Hook"Interesting, I don’t think I have ever seen a penalty for a deliberate knock on in RL.'"
It’s a long time since I’ve seen one given to be fair. It’s in the rules though and my guess it that the officials interpret it as an attempt to intercept. |
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| Quote ="Bigredwarrior"You said ‘Slightly OT but deliberate knock ons should be a penalty’. I replied by saying that a deliberate knock on already is a penalty and you said ‘no it’s not’. Forgive me if I misunderstood anything? It doesn’t matter much to be fair.'"
no I didnt |
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| Quote ="Pieman"no I didnt'"
I’m not sure what it s you’re trying to argue about or why? |
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| Quote ="Pieman"no I didnt'"
I have John Cleese as the voice of Pieman, and Michael Palin as the voice of Bid RedWarrior in my head, now! |
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| Quote ="MorePlaymakersNeeded"I have John Cleese as the voice of Pieman, and Michael Palin as the voice of Bid RedWarrior in my head, now!'"
No you haven't. |
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is this the 10 minute argument
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| Quote ="Captain Hook"is this the 10 minute argument'"
You’ve already had it. |
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| Quote ="post"You’ve already had it.'"
I may be arguing in my own time.. |
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| Quote ="Phuzzy"I may be arguing in my own time..'"
That was never 5 minutes just now ! |
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| Quote ="Egg Chasing"To the letter of the law it is a knock on, but the lack of intent makes it hard to stomach because you can't get your arms out the way in that instance. If Austin is judged to lose it behind him as he is going down for example and it hits Tommy's arm as it did then Wire get 6 more tackles.'"
He could have kept his arm away. ..but it would have deemed a red card for a shoulder barge.
You can't have it both ways. |
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