I think mcguire's last chance of international selection was this series. Agree smith's kicking from hand is better but not been as good an overall player as McGuire has been. In recent years. He will likely be skipper but will miss Sinfield.

I would imagine so too IF McNamara stays as coach (Shenton another one I imagine). If their's a change of coach, with McDermott one suggestion, then he might get back in.

He's had a great career and now he faces a new challenge as a leader and with more of a responsibility to get the Leeds side around the field. I'm interested to see how he goes because if I'm honest I don't fancy him to be able to fill Sinfields boots because he's too emotional. I always thought Sinfield was the type of character to keep people's focus when things were getting tense but I don't see that in McGuire.

If he thrives though I'd have no issue with him coming back in the England side. We can't always build to the future because if you do you may never get there. If he's the best player available at the time get him in.

McGuire deserved to be selected in this series, sure he's not the quickest anymore, but he has the best passing game of any English halfback in the game. He was also great in the warm up game against NZ at headingley.

I'd say what Smith showed - and Sinfield has before him - is that what is needed first and foremost from a halfback at international level is kicking and organisational skills. England in particular need someone to provide that structure. It's also good to have a halfback with the confidence to tell forwards - especially very experienced ones - when and where to run.

In summary I'd say Smith is similar in lots of ways to Trent Hodkinson.

The problem for England is that we seemingly cannot produce a halfback (or even more wishfully a pair) who have those skills as a given and a touch of class beyond that in attack.

International RL games between the "big 3" are fast becoming very Origin-like. Origin is a great spectacle but it doesn't always lend itself to the best games of rugby; often low scoring, low risk, forward dominated, defence orientated arm wrestles. We've shown we can mix it in those sorts of games but as you say we don't have a Shaun Johnson or a Jonathan Thurston who can produce a moment of magic in such a game. The fact none of our backs scored a single try between them in 3 games emphasises this.

I remember saying on an Aussie forum years ago that SoO is fine for three games a year, but if every game of rugby league was like that, I'd soon lose interest (and for the reasons you state).

I think the idea that our backs didn't score, therefore there's something wrong, is not necessarily the case. One thing that was much improved from England in the third game was attacking structure. Hence, for example, for Whitehead's second try, the outside backs were nicely set up in position for a break on the outside. This kept the defence in check and meant Whitehead had that bit more space to get over the line. If he'd been the only option, the Kiwi defence would have dealt with it.

As for moments of magic, it may well be that George Williams will produce those for England in the future. And there are other good young players coming through who will want to stake a claim.

It'd be bad news for us but we could do with some young English halves going over to the NRL and learning to play in tight, high pressure games each week. Lads like Williams get it too easy half the season and don't need to work on the real basics because their natural running and attacking talents mean they don't need to.

It would be fantastic for the national side but bad for us, Leeds and the competition in general if Williams, Hampshire and Sutcliffe were to go to the NRL (and play).

It's getting the game time that would be the problem.

We need balance in our halves one who can control n organise the team n another who has a more creative off the cuff style of play n a full back who can read and come into attacking line at right time and who has a great support game.

Zak has good defence and in.super league a good ball return and comes in for set plays tho his support play in general is not as good as sam T's nor is he as good coming in to the attacking line.

Widdop disappointing in general but Steve macnamara is in oz majority of the time so sees more of him week in week out.bad tournament?

Williams grew into first game very well but didn't really have great game in second test but I think another season playing and he will be much more prepared for the four nations

Smith. Well we won the test n he was brought in we did look better going forward and he kicked well, is he the answer for four nations? If he has a stand out season then maybe but we will be in a great position of people missing out who if they were selected nobody would have any complaints.

I'm really excited for the four nations now we've a very good pool of young and experienced players to choose from and others who are pushing to get into the squad.

Danny Brough is the best English halfback in Super League IMO.
The fact he had a fall out with McNamara and then decided to play for Scotland shouldn't detract from that.
Hopefully we have had and seen the last of McNamara.
If or when the new England coach takes over he will bring Brough back into the England set up.

Ha ha ha

Seriously ....

Even if he is, he's how old? 34 or something, now. The ship has sailed.

Danny Brough is a petulant child. He was a very good player a few years ago but because he fell out with the coach don't assume it was the coaches fault. I don't think you could really trust Brough to keep his head in the way that you could trust Matty in a big game. Matty might be having a poor game but his discipline doesn't suffer (he's had one brain explosion, against Widnes, in all time I've seen him playing). Brough can be a liability when he's on one.

If we didn't get rid of Steve Mc last year after losing narrowly to Australia and NZ then we certainly aren't going to ditch him now that we have won a series. A lot was made of NZ missing Johnson, Foran, Mannering et al, but England will have two more Burgesses, Sam T and Jack Reed available (hopefully) next year.

I'm all for stability. Keep Steve Mc in the job for the World Cup then review it. People can point to his poor record in Super League, but isn't he allowed to learn and improve as a coach? His stint in the NRL may well be making him into a decent coach. The players seem happy with him.

He had a decent game, nothing spectacular but I was glad to see him getting involved where he normally goes missing. The problem of course is that he doesn't really have another gear, that sort of performance is as good as it ever gets for him. Longer term I'd give Williams more control in both the Wigan and England teams and partner him with a flair player

Surely Williams *is* a flair player?

I don't think there's any rule against having two of them together....? As long as one can do the organising which I'm confident Williams will be able to

Really, at test level you need two half backs who can organise, and can do the basics well, at the very least. Flair halfbacks don't really work, unless you get a freak like Johnson, but you look at an unstructured half like Marshall prior to Johnson's ascension, and even he struggled at the highest level.
In short, if you're not a well rounded half you will be exposed at the highest level, and in the biggest games.

Spot on IMO. For example former Man of Steel Rangi Chase. Being the so-called best player in SuperLeague didn't prepare him for what was a step up in standard. He couldn't cope. A bit like Zak Hardaker, who was bang average in the series IMHO of course!

Well, quite. Rangi Chase being, after all, a poor man's Benji Marshall. I'd still have Marshall in my team, though, if he were suddenly discovered to be English!

TBH England are well short of any dominant half backs that can control a game at test level, especially when you consider what we will face against a fully fit NZ and Australia side
What half back pairing will we be picking next season?
I would have given Like Gale a shot in this series to see if he could step up to the plate

George Williams is a bit like Liam Sutcliffe in that they are both just not quite ready at the highest level,but imo they could be down the line

Don't know if I fully agree about the flair sentiment, if you look at the top performing teams (if they play the 6 off the 7) you have balance with a partnership one who's the organiser etc, more associated with the 7 with a 6 who can offer some flair and maybe more of a running game.

Look at JT for example, arguably the best player in the game, once the organiser to Lockyer, now the flair player with Cronk organising both QLD and AUS. JT has freedom of the park, allowed to read the game playing both left and right side of the pitch, he has the luxury to do this as Cronk is organising the game in communication with JT.

This is the same for NZ with Foran controlling as Johnson roams, again for the Broncos who have Hunt organising with Milford adding flair (this partnership could end up being one of the best in world rugby over the next 5-10years)

Saw the Brett Kenny interview, found it interesting when he discussed JT, saying many players at 6 or 7 are shackled to a structure not allowed to show their flair. He was discussing how half backs would be better and were better in years gone by when they were allowed to be more creative with flair.

On the original title...

Not even close. There are at least 10 other HB's i would take out of Super League over him. His overall performances have been poor. 1 swallow doesn't make a summer i am afraid. Nowhere near consistent enough. It' s huge season for him. His kicking game simply has to deliver.

I wasn't saying halfbacks can't, or shouldn't have flair. My point was that they'll be found out in the pressure games if they don't do the basics well, and don't posses any ability to organise the side.
I think game management, and organisational skills should be seen as fundamental for any halfback, and if they can do the fancy stuff then that's a bonus.

It's hard to disagree with this. There aren't many around. McGuire doesn't have the pace to make telling breaks any more, Brough relies on his kicking, Smith relies and falls on his kicking. Gale is probably the closest in the league of the senior players. Williams and Sutcliffe are the future, Hampshire will hopefully realise his potential and the lad a Warrington looks a good prospect too.

English ones? Name them.