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| Quote ="Phuzzy"I think that was always going to be the case even without the NRL interest. An integral part of the team with proven big game ability, full international (and a Man of the series one at that!) plus the normal contract increases you would expect for a player of his ability would all combine to suggest a hefty increase. Factor in the NRL and it is, as you say, going to be substantial.
Any rumours as to his thoughts on going or staying?'"
Sent you a PM Phuzzy.
I think it will be very difficult to retain him. Hope I’m wrong.
Obviously we’ve got Farrimond coming through but I think that Smith is probably the most influential player in SL and 2025 maybe too early for Farrimond. |
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| Quote ="Itchy Arsenal"Sent you a PM Phuzzy.
I think it will be very difficult to retain him. Hope I’m wrong.
Obviously we’ve got Farrimond coming through but I think that Smith is probably the most influential player in SL and 2025 maybe too early for Farrimond.'"
I hope it can be resolved. The best 7 in Superleague currently and absolutely crucial to the way we play. |
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| Quote ="Phuzzy"I hope it can be resolved. The best 7 in Superleague currently and absolutely crucial to the way we play.'"
Couldn’t agree more. |
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I think the only way Harry Smith is retained is if we assign him marquee status (and even then it may not be enough). He has a partner here so a lot may depend on how attached they are to home and Harry's career ambitions.
Wigan are in a fortunate position whereby the owner can potentially fund three marquee players but its tough when you have more than three players in the squad that can potentially warrant that status. Long term planning would be tricky with this I imagine as it isn't always clear whether a player will develop to that level. Remember Harry Smith has only really been discussed as a possible marquee over the last 6-12 months - 2023 has been his real break out year both domestically and internationally. He didn't start in the first few games in 2022 and struggled in 2021. Its only now that he's come into the marquee conversation.
If we're now in a position where we've allocated all three marquee spots to Field, French and Thompson then something has to give. I don't know that Thompson is marquee but you'd imagine the vast majority of Wigan fans would prefer Field, French and Smith to be the three.
The nightmare scenario is all three of Field, French and Smith leave at the end of 2024. Field and French are the box office players but Smith gives them the platform. I would say enjoy it while we can.
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i've seen a couple of comments re our use of the marquee spots, and Thompson being one (home grown). from my understanding that isnt possible, although he could be federation trained
the marquee rule changes to home grown (club trained), Federation and Non-Federation, so assumptions of Thompson, Field and French i dont believe can be correct
i would say but with no club knowledge to back this up
1. Home Grown - Farrell - could then be used on Smith (if it isnt already)
2. Federation - Thompson
3. Non Federation - French or Field
whilst we dont have to have marquee players, if the club wants to benefit from the salary cap reductions it does make sense to declare players are marquee, if we are going to spend up to / over the cap
purely as an example Farrell is currently on £200k and Smith on £100k, so Farrell declared as marquee, so counts as £50k on the cap under club trained (hit to Cap = £150k Farrell £50k / Smith £100k)
we bump Smith up to £300k and declare him as Marquee, so only £50k counts, we then need to work out the effect on the cap as Farrell would then count as £200k v Smith £100k (hit to cap = £250k Smith £50k / Farrell £200k)
the cap / marquee is dynamic, so can be changed as long as we declare the changes and are under the cap limit with dispensations etc
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It would be interesting to know which NRL have made the offer. If you look at the top 12 teams in the NRL, I can’t see a team where Smith would be a regular scrum half. Maybe Canberra. If the money is similar, would you rather be in a losing side like Wests or St George or a winning team like Wigan? Also, what would being in a bottom NRL team do to his England prospects?
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Harry Smith is in the last 4 for Golden Boot. He’s a good chance of winning it too I’d say given England were the only unbeaten team.
Raising his profile more.
So funny seeing opposition fans have gone from saying he’s rubbish to now buzzing about a rumour of NRL interest
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| Quote ="Mark_P1973"i've seen a couple of comments re our use of the marquee spots, and Thompson being one (home grown). from my understanding that isnt possible, although he could be federation trained
the marquee rule changes to home grown (club trained), Federation and Non-Federation, so assumptions of Thompson, Field and French i dont believe can be correct
i would say but with no club knowledge to back this up
1. Home Grown - Farrell - could then be used on Smith (if it isnt already)
2. Federation - Thompson
3. Non Federation - French or Field
whilst we dont have to have marquee players, if the club wants to benefit from the salary cap reductions it does make sense to declare players are marquee, if we are going to spend up to / over the cap
purely as an example Farrell is currently on £200k and Smith on £100k, so Farrell declared as marquee, so counts as £50k on the cap under club trained (hit to Cap = £150k Farrell £50k / Smith £100k)
we bump Smith up to £300k and declare him as Marquee, so only £50k counts, we then need to work out the effect on the cap as Farrell would then count as £200k v Smith £100k (hit to cap = £250k Smith £50k / Farrell £200k)
the cap / marquee is dynamic, so can be changed as long as we declare the changes and are under the cap limit with dispensations etc'"
The third marquee player has to be federation trained (i.e. trained by a member club of the European Federation) but not necessarily home grown (i.e. developed through the club's own academy). |
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| Quote ="NSW"Harry Smith is in the last 4 for Golden Boot. He’s a good chance of winning it too I’d say given England were the only unbeaten team.
Raising his profile more.
So funny seeing opposition fans have gone from saying he’s rubbish to now buzzing about a rumour of NRL interest'"
It’s not ideal. I also noticed KPP bigging up Junior Nsemba and talking about NRL interest in him in an interview with the Aussie media. It’s going to be tough stopping the drain anytime soon unfortunately. We’re going to need the academy to keep doing its thing. |
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| Quote ="Itchy Arsenal"Sent you a PM Phuzzy.
I think it will be very difficult to retain him. Hope I’m wrong.
Obviously we’ve got Farrimond coming through but I think that Smith is probably the most influential player in SL and 2025 maybe too early for Farrimond.'"
It really would be a crying shame of Wigan lost Smith he's finally showing the form from when he was a kid and it's frightening to think how good he can become let's hope he stays |
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| Quote ="Wandering Wiganer"It would be interesting to know which NRL have made the offer. If you look at the top 12 teams in the NRL, I can’t see a team where Smith would be a regular scrum half. Maybe Canberra. If the money is similar, would you rather be in a losing side like Wests or St George or a winning team like Wigan? Also, what would being in a bottom NRL team do to his England prospects?'"
Very much doubt this would be part of the consideration considering how dead international rugby league is. |
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I think he would be very poorly advised to go before 2026/7.
I don’t see him having the physicality at the moment to cope with the NRL.
His ability to control and read the game is certainly good enough now but I think a few more years would work best for him.
The physical side of his game has improved massively but it’s still a long way off NRL standards yet in my opinion.
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| Quote ="nathan_rugby"Very much doubt this would be part of the consideration considering how dead international rugby league is.'"
It’s frustrating the international game granted but it’s not dead for any English players. Hopefully Samoa get over here in 2024 (but Smith will be here next year anyway so that’s irrelevant to his decision) but then players have an Ashes tour and a World Cup to aim for and I can pretty much guarantee every single English player will be desperate to be part of those events.
I don’t think playing for a bottom of the table NRL side overly impacts your chances mind, as long as you’re going ok yourself. |
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Getting somewhat annoying this, the only thing that could stop us doing what Saints did over the past few seasons is the NRL continually forcing us to rebuild our team
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| Quote ="NickyKiss"It’s frustrating the international game granted but it’s not dead for any English players. Hopefully Samoa get over here in 2024 (but Smith will be here next year anyway so that’s irrelevant to his decision) but then players have an Ashes tour and a World Cup to aim for and I can pretty much guarantee every single English player will be desperate to be part of those events.
I don’t think playing for a bottom of the table NRL side overly impacts your chances mind, as long as you’re going ok yourself.'"
Yeah was pretty average most of last year and was in a terrible team but still got the nod ahead of Faz who had a good year in a champion team |
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| Quote ="jonh"I think he would be very poorly advised to go before 2026/7.
I don’t see him having the physicality at the moment to cope with the NRL.
His ability to control and read the game is certainly good enough now but I think a few more years would work best for him.
The physical side of his game has improved massively but it’s still a long way off NRL standards yet in my opinion.'"
Completely agree. |
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Quote ="MadDogg"The third marquee player has to be federation trained (i.e. trained by a member club of the European Federation) but not necessarily home grown (i.e. developed through the club's own academy).'"
there is a distinction though in the wording and appropriate costs to the cap, but it doesnt state you can only have or have to have, 1 of each, other than you have to have a minimum of 1 Federation trained
Club Trained Marquee player = £50k
Federation Trained = £100k
Non Federation Trained = £150k
https://www.rugby-league.com/article/61 ... lculations.
hence my example and explanation of why Thompson cannot be club trained, he would be Federation trained player
Further confirmation below (its an out of date article given Smithies still at Wigan  )
First off, let's define what all the different trained type of players are. A club-trained player is someone who has been trained and developed at the club they are currently at. Examples would be Harry Newman at Leeds Rhinos, James Roby at St Helens and Morgan Smithies at Wigan Warriors.
A federation trained player would be someone who wasn't produced by the club they are but was trained by a club affiliated to the RLEF (Rugby League European Federation). George Williams is as an example of this as he was trained by Wigan but is at Warrington, so he is classed as a federation trained player.
Finally, a non-federation trained player is someone who wasn't developed or trained by an RLEF affiliated clubs. Basically, if they spent their junior career in Australia, New Zealand or the Pacific Islands. So Bevan French, Wigan's marquee player, is a non-federation trained player.
https://www.examinerlive.co.uk/sport/ru ... r-27049111 |
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Quote ="MadDogg"The third marquee player has to be federation trained (i.e. trained by a member club of the European Federation) but not necessarily home grown (i.e. developed through the club's own academy).'"
there is a distinction though in the wording and appropriate costs to the cap, but it doesnt state you can only have or have to have, 1 of each, other than you have to have a minimum of 1 Federation trained
Club Trained Marquee player = £50k
Federation Trained = £100k
Non Federation Trained = £150k
https://www.rugby-league.com/article/61 ... lculations.
hence my example and explanation of why Thompson cannot be club trained, he would be Federation trained player
Further confirmation below (its an out of date article given Smithies still at Wigan )
First off, let's define what all the different trained type of players are. A club-trained player is someone who has been trained and developed at the club they are currently at. Examples would be Harry Newman at Leeds Rhinos, James Roby at St Helens and Morgan Smithies at Wigan Warriors.
A federation trained player would be someone who wasn't produced by the club they are but was trained by a club affiliated to the RLEF (Rugby League European Federation). George Williams is as an example of this as he was trained by Wigan but is at Warrington, so he is classed as a federation trained player.
Finally, a non-federation trained player is someone who wasn't developed or trained by an RLEF affiliated clubs. Basically, if they spent their junior career in Australia, New Zealand or the Pacific Islands. So Bevan French, Wigan's marquee player, is a non-federation trained player.
https://www.examinerlive.co.uk/sport/ru ... r-27049111 | |
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| Quote ="MattyB"https://www.wigantoday.net/sport/rugby-league/ramon-silva-departs-wigan-warriors-for-championship-move-4425334?fbclid=IwAR2pwCNXib5OmjvNIyZW3_JYPSXjbXV3lG25tj-g-USpij47xwWZiwgHm9M
Not a shock this one but it confirms another one off the books. It was a weird one this, as if he was only signed on to keep KPP company when moving up from London.'"
Not SL standard let alone a plsyer who would command a place at a team hoping to be at the top end of the table.
Good luck to him at Barrow. |
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| Quote ="jonh"I think he would be very poorly advised to go before 2026/7.
I don’t see him having the physicality at the moment to cope with the NRL.
His ability to control and read the game is certainly good enough now but I think a few more years would work best for him.
The physical side of his game has improved massively but it’s still a long way off NRL standards yet in my opinion.'"
He's almost 24 now and 5'10 at best, he's fine defensively and he's never going to break tackles. What more physicality are you expecting from him at this stage? If he's not ready right now (and I'd dispute that) he certainly will be in another 12 months.
He's not particularly well paid and especially not now considering the year he's just had. Lifestyle benefits are endless and he's moving to a better competition and instantly trebling his money in a career which he can only expect to have another 10 good years. Not to mention every SL club with cap space would bend over backwards to have him sign if it didn't immediately work out. He would be very poorly advised if he didn't go.
Imagine if injury-prone Thompson being on marquee money for four years prevents Smith from signing a longer improved deal. Absolute madness. |
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| Quote ="SFW"He's almost 24 now and 5'10 at best, he's fine defensively and he's never going to break tackles. What more physicality are you expecting from him at this stage? If he's not ready right now (and I'd dispute that) he certainly will be in another 12 months.
He's not particularly well paid and especially not now considering the year he's just had. Lifestyle benefits are endless and he's moving to a better competition and instantly trebling his money in a career which he can only expect to have another 10 good years. Not to mention every SL club with cap space would bend over backwards to have him sign if it didn't immediately work out. He would be very poorly advised if he didn't go.
Imagine if injury-prone Thompson being on marquee money for four years prevents Smith from signing a longer improved deal. Absolute madness.'"
i think in terms of physicality we are generally referring to defensively where he has been targetted previously. However, he has improved massively over the last 12 months and certainly wasnt shirking the defensive side of things v Tonga, where he couldnt have really gotten a bigger / more physical team running at him
in terms of Marquee, Smith and Thompson would fall into different categories ie club trained v federation trained. So both could be marquee, and Smith would only cost us £50k on the cap and Thompson £100k |
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| Quote ="SFW"He's almost 24 now and 5'10 at best, he's fine defensively and he's never going to break tackles. What more physicality are you expecting from him at this stage? If he's not ready right now (and I'd dispute that) he certainly will be in another 12 months.
He's not particularly well paid and especially not now considering the year he's just had. Lifestyle benefits are endless and he's moving to a better competition and instantly trebling his money in a career which he can only expect to have another 10 good years. Not to mention every SL club with cap space would bend over backwards to have him sign if it didn't immediately work out. He would be very poorly advised if he didn't go.
Imagine if injury-prone Thompson being on marquee money for four years prevents Smith from signing a longer improved deal. Absolute madness.'"
I dispute the fact he is 5’10” I’m 5’8” and was chatting to him not too long ago and he certainly didn’t seem taller than me.
In regard his physicality it is an area in which he has improved in but I think he would need more than another year to improve in this area.
It was interesting after the World Cup when they asked Luke Keary about the main differences between NRL & SL players. He stated that players like Byrne were classed as larger athletic props, but in the NRL he would be a smaller second row.
It’s a massive step up in terms of physicality and he would be faced with that challenge week in week out by every team he came up against.
Another 2/3 years in the gym and working on his technique for me would be best for his career. He could still going to have a 5 year NRL career.
I fear if he has ambitions of NRL and goes over in 2025 his career may be much shorter lived than that.
Hopefully I hope he stays for the duration of his career though and agree, he is more worthy of a marquee stop than Thompson. |
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I love this “ Thompson being on £400k and being marquee” is talked about like a fact.
The £400k figure was his NRL salary, after a not so great NRL career and injuries, combined with age his salary will have come down significantly.
He’ll still be on good money and might be marquee but £400k is probably way off.
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He is marquee, and the only person I can see making reference to £400k is you.
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| Quote ="NSW"I love this “ Thompson being on £400k and being marquee” is talked about like a fact.
The £400k figure was his NRL salary, after a not so great NRL career and injuries, combined with age his salary will have come down significantly.
He’ll still be on good money and might be marquee but £400k is probably way off.'"
Its not way off at all. Wigan's offer blew NRL clubs out of the water. He is earning a fortune, its without doubt a risk given his salary but if does stay fit he will be outstanding.
I can see Smith going in the next two years with Farrimond taking his place. There is an easy succession plan in place for Wigan with Farrimond coming through who as I've said before is a once in a generation talent. |
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