? You've lost me.

Gobsmacked we've been voted back into Super League, but obviously delighted with the outcome.

very happy with this

On a personal level I’m happy for Leigh. I played with Andy Thornley as a youngster and he’s grafted his backside off to play SL and he deserves it. John Duffy is a friend of mine and again has worked hard and deserves a SL shot.

But putting aside personal connections I just don’t agree whatsoever with it. We got rid of Toronto to bring back Leigh? Really? A step backwards for me. I get why Toulouse weren’t selected, no issues there for me but not selecting London is a huge error IMHO.

We had a chance here, another one, to really make a statement of intent for RL growth and instead we’ve opted for a small Wigan borough. The flat cappers will be delighted.

If it's right that franchising will be back from 2022 then this may be Leigh's chance to book their place ahead of one of the other 11 clubs with London taking their place.

I don't see what a crap London side with no fans brings to the game in all honesty.

At least this Leigh side should be able to give it a decent crack and will get a decent crowd in when allowed.

Except London do have fans. In 2019 they averaged a home gate of just over 2,000. Leigh’s in comparison was 3,259, now for a town that’s only got one professional team and claims to have huge support, that’s pretty poor. London meanwhile compete with high flying PL/RU sides in a huge metropolitan city and still draw 2,000. That’s pretty good in my book, even better when you consider the most RLWC tickets have been sold in London. We’ve missed a huge opportunity and instead of going for a meaningful expansion have take a safe, warm and cuddly bet in Leigh. A side who have never managed to stay in SL for more than 1 season.

They’ll give it a decent crack but so would have the other 5. If by no fans you mean away support then that’s a pretty poor argument brought up when there’s no other leg to stand on. If we’re reliant on away supporters, we’re doing something demonstrably wrong in the first place.

So Leigh in a division below averaged more than London did in the top flight?

What was Leigh's average in 2017? 6k I think roughly. London haven't a prayer of matching that.

I’m not saying they do but do you really think Leigh offers anything other than reducing our sport further to the M62? We sit and wonder why our sport doesn’t grow, alongside a long list of other reasons this is one of them - no ambition or confidence to back expansion choices.

Leigh won’t survive. We all know that, neither would London or the other 4. Chances are Leigh will be replaced by one of the 5 left behind, likely Toulouse/London which makes our debate a little pointless.

I can understand why they chose Leigh. I’m not “outraged” or even angry about it, I just think we’ve missed a big commercial opportunity to capitalise on the successful WC sales down there.

The one thing I would say is these decisions don’t go hand in hand, so they didn’t get rid of Toronto to bring in Leigh, they got rid of Toronto due to financial issues and then had to bring a team in. They then weigh up the pros and cons of them all and choose what’s a safety first option but probably the right call in the short term. I see a team in Leigh who can have a crack at staying up, they’ve got a decent squad, an owner who will back them to bring in more players, a good facility and they will get pretty good crowds. In these current times I think playing it a bit safer first is understandable. Leigh will be a solid middle order batsman to fill a gap for a year until the world is back on its feet.

I’m like you by the way, I want the league to expand and grow. I was really disappointed to see the end of Toronto and my first thought was ‘get Toulouse in’ but it’s too risky this year and they’re strong enough to come again. I get what you’re saying with London but the timeframe kills them. They’ve lost pretty much everyone from their last superleague season and their current squad would need too much work. It would be too risky to put them in IMO because 50-60 point hidings each week isn’t going to grow the game in London.

A understandable safety first option is my take but the game really needs to encourage the likes of Toulouse, London and York to keep growing.

What a silly post. Can you elaborate on your expansion thoughts? Especially after the embarrassment TW have just brought us.
For me,if Leigh wasn't chosen, i would be wishing the other club well whoever it was.

You’ve said it was silly without saying why. That makes you silly by virtue of not explaining yourself properly.

My expansion thoughts are quite simple; the longer we restrict ourselves to the M62 the more our game dies. I was sad for Toronto, I was annoyed when they weren’t re admitted but I can understand why. I always said with Toronto/NY/Ottawa that the medium - long term aim must have been to start a professional North American League. It wasn’t feasible in SL medium term.

I can understand not choosing Toulouse given the pandemic and travel restrictions which are likely to stay for another 12-18months at least. I’m glad Bradford and Fev weren’t chosen, they offer nothing whatsoever.

Leigh however offer what? Another derby for Wigan? A squad of ex SL players who will likely sign for the next club which comes up when Leigh go down? Commercially what do Leigh offer? Fan base is a given, I can’t begin to argue that point.

London offered much more than people give them credit for. Would they have gone back down? I reckon so, much like Leigh will too. But it’s an opportunity missed.

Once you take your personal connection to Leigh out of it (I’ve taken mine out) you can see the bigger picture. I might have touched a nerve with you, I offer no apologies for that. All I can say is that it isn’t personal.

Edit; I do actually wish Leigh well. Though I fully expect them to be relegated again come seasons end.

I do agree with you, despite my posts criticising the decision. I’m by no means against Leigh in SL, my point is that opportunities have been missed and I also believe that come June/July Leigh will be on the end of some good hidings as well - all 6 would have been because they come up hamstrung with finances and little time to build a competitive SL squad.

Good luck to them. Especially to the Thornley brothers and John Duffy, I hope they enjoy their time in SL.

=#FF0000It makes you silly harping on about expansion when it has just failed us big time.

=#0000BFPlease elaborate how/why?

=#00FF00It was a unanimous decision from the panel. You obviously disagree - your opinion of course. Go check out the criteria for this decision, and what Leigh submitted pal.

You haven't touched a nerve at all, It was the right decision,and i'm confident we will justify it.

It failed us because we had no confidence whatsoever to back ourselves. Just like War of The Roses, just like the Exiles, just like licensing. The only thing we’ve backed when it seemed it was failing was Magic Weekend and look how that’s turned out, one of the most looked forward to weekends in the calendar (if not the most looked forward to).

I’m not naive enough to believe every club will survive. Celtic, PSG were real half hearted attempts. But you only have to look to Catalans to see the true potential of expansion if it’s given a chance.

I’m not at all against Leigh in SL. Genuinely I’m not. But when you have Toronto’s fate decided by the clubs, and the 12th SL by an independent panel, there’s something wrong. Just my opinion.

I always favoured Toulouse but there are the unknowns of Brexit and Covid.
Should TO top the Championship in 2021 then maybe those problems will have been resolved.
Leigh is the RFL/SL choice so fair enough.
Let's just welcome Leigh and their supporters to the DW

With the world as it is and after yet another failed attempt at expansion, now is the time for a solid option and Leigh are pretty much that.

They are almost on a hiding to nothing but their relegation won't set them back too much.

London will get their chance again and if it is with franchising will get a few years go at it.

The club won’t be too annoyed to see Leigh back in. They’ll bring 3,000+ to Wigan (if allowed) and that’s a good few bob in to the coffers. It may be short sighted to think this but they’ll be good news in the short term for other clubs, especially Wigan, Saints, Wire etc.

Why?

Agreed,and the most important thing is to have a great game of rugby league.

Given the lack of time Leigh will struggle to put a competitive squad together. On the other hand we have an opportunity to offload some fringe players or to set up a couple of loans.

There is a simple answer for Rugby League expansion. Extend the league to 14 teams and get rid of the stupid loop fixtures. Teams like Leigh, London and Tolouse can then compete. If promotion and relegation is confined to 1 team then at least 2 of those sides will stay in super league for 2 seasons and one of them for 3 seasons at least. Sides like York and Fev then have the opportunity for promotion and the game grows. It's easy really. Just need to expand the league. I don't really see a downside unless I am missing something. I could be.

The downsides would be:

- The existing SL sides would get 1/14 of the TV money instead of 1/12
- The talent pool would be spread thinner, potentially lowering the overall quality
- More uncompetitive games (i.e you're giving up a third Wigan v Saints fixture for a new Wigan v York or whoever)
- Less gate money for the existing SL sides (same theory as above)
- You significantly weaken the Championship as they lose their three best sides
- Less gate money for the remaining Championship sides as presumably the sides getting promoted were drawing higher crowds than whoever comes up from League 1
- There is also the question of what you do with the play offs. If you expand then to 7 or 8 teams then a lot of the regular season will be meaningless for the top sides once they know they are in the play offs. If you have 5 or 6 teams then the season will be meaningless for many of the bottom sides once they know they are safe from relegation.

I'm not saying we shouldn't do it eventually, but those would be the drawbacks.

Yes, but apart from that; what have the Romans ever done for us?

like what? Leigh offer away support thats all that we can expect these days as its been proven that these big city clubs dont bring in the investors thats been bounded around for year

Bearing in mind we are still in the middle of this pandemic then bringing Leigh in was probably the safest and smartest choice (and I'm saying that as an expansionist).

I would like to hope that a number of ambitious Championship clubs look of ways to grow and seek additional investment to give them the greatest chance of progressing into SL over the next 3-5 years. I'm talking about Toulouse, London, Newcastle and York to spread away from the M62 as well as Widnes and Bradford strengthening the traditional heartlands.

A SL team made up of TO, London, Newcastle & York all competing would give us a much better chance of a new TV deal once the next one expires. Surely as a business that's the aim? To be in a stronger competition than the one it was five years earlier?