From reading the thread, it looks like she's saying that Smith is the worst 7 they've had because TL hasn't played for them. If that's the case, an opinion not worth arguing with as clearly, the writer has never played the game and knows very little about rugby league. Tommy might not have the best kicking game in the world but he's streets ahead of Smith in terms of skill and ability.

Exactly. People seem to have forgotten that Saints busted a gut trying to sign TL. Instead they settled for Matty Smith.

Never liked Tommy as a 7 the first time around let alone now. We are lacking creativity and leadership which are qualities I'd look for in a 7. Yes Tommy can 'put in the big shots' but when ever do we sign a 7 for his ability to crunch people?!

Tommy isn't creative. He has never shown any ability to play what's in front of him and move the team around the park. His kicking game is poor and general reading of the game is lacking.

So what do we do with him? Move him to 9? Then we have to drop Sam or Micky. I'd sooner keep Powell and Micky on the interchange and keep the money invested into Tommy to spend on another position or another 7. He's a bad signing.

I also wish we had a 'ball player' at 9. Can't remember the last time we had a 9 who had a quick scoot, excellent game management and got us playing on the front foot. Micky is another one like Tommy, excellent in defence yet not creative in attack.

I expect ball players who can read a game and play 'off the cuff' from my 1, 6, 7, 9. Currently we don't have that at Wigan.

Discounting what what you said about Tommy (who won the Harry Sunderland playing 7 in 2010 so not too shabby yeah?) George Williams can't play off the cuff?? Really??? And what do you mean by currently? A fit Sam Tomkins & Morgan Escare?? So we could have a line up with 1 - Escare 6 - Williams 7 - Tomkins and you say we've no 'off the cuff' players?? Really???????

Leuluai is the best hooker at the club if nothing else. Next season I'd like to see us try:

FB Escare
SO Williams
SH S.Tomkins
H Leuluai

S McIlorum/Powell (maybe sell one of the two if the opportunity arises)

Ive resisted calls for Sam to move up previously but perhaps this is the way to go next season.

ALL 1, 6, 7, and 9 to be creative positions.

We have Sam and George who are creative. That's about it.

Then we're compensating for Tommy's lack of creativity at 7 putting Sam there. On the same token we now have Tommy as a very expensive interchange 9 when we could have stuck with Sam Powell and used Tommy's wage elsewhere.

I thought it sounded mad!
I'd argue that we can carry a less creative 9 if we have Lockers on the field and the PTB is quick enough.

TBH I never thought Escaré would be so good! Moving Sam now wouldn't be as big an issue IMO.

Escare brought a long kicking game I didn't think he'd have and his passing was much better then expected also. I would be more then happy with him at fullback and Sam in the halves next year.

It's tough to think it because they're three very popular players but the squad balance could be better without one of Leuluai, McIlorum or Powell.

Yes, we don't need three dummy-halves. especially with the likes of Ganson in the wings. Have we still got the other lad? Waterworth, was it?

Before all the injuries kicked in, our attack looked fast and slick because TL took charge and guided us around the pitch. That left Williams to wreak havoc and at the start of the season he was unplayable at times. The lads covering the injuries in the back line did a sterling job but the experience of Farrell and Bateman and the form of Gildart took an awful lot of firepower out of our attack when they were missing. Isa worked his nuts off but simply isn't a centre and it showed. Tomkins, Gildart, Bateman and Farrell just run great lines at fast pace which makes a huge difference to our way of playing.
They're back now and Bateman and Tomkins in particular are already making a massive difference and I fully expect to see our form improve as these lads get match fit. TL will put a lot of egg on a lot of faces I reckon!

I think George Williams may turn into our long term successor for Lockers at 13.

that would leave us something like

1. Escare
6. S.Tomkins
7. T.Leuluia
9. Mickey Mc
13. G.Williams

Depends what you mean by long term? TL only has a playing contract for 1 more season. It will be incumbent on Shorrocks to put his name on the 7 shirt during the 2018 season otherwise we'll have to sign a proven scrum half. At the end of this season, I think we're going to have to release a few players and sign at least one big name player who has proven themself at a decent standard. I can see Tierney being surplus to requirements and possibly even Powell. Powell has done a cracking job covering for MM but I can't see him becoming at starter in our 13 when others are fit. The emergence of Ganson at a cheaper wage puts pressure on Powell.
I'm not sure we'll need all of Marshall, Davies Burgess and Manfredi either so we could free up some cap space. It'll be an interesting few months.

We already have a small backrow with Bateman and Farrell, both I'm sure you will agree we will want to keep, surely we can't afford to then add a very small loose forward into the mix, big packs would absolutely steamroller us.

Williams isn't long-term anything, he'll be in the NRL in 2 or 3 years.

No NRL team would touch him unless he gets back to how he was playing at the beginning of this year.

I think the comments regarding TL are harsh tbh. Yes, he has been below par and not upto the required standard, but let's not forgot he's broke his jaw this year and the team has been ravaged by injuries. As someone else has mentioned, at the beginning of this year we looked slick and free-flowing much of this was down to TL's passing game and his ability to stand up the defensive line. This was also without S.Tomkins at FB who is a much better player than Escare despite Morgan performing so well earlier this year.

The chance of retaining the SL may have slipped already but I think we need to give the players a few weeks of performing together in a lineup that looks somewhat like our first team before righting off a player like TL with bags of caps for NZ.

The broken jaw issue is a very fair point when it comes to him looking tentative taking on the line and the fact that he's struggling to commit defenders and make space but it can't excuse his kicking game, which at the moment is harming us more then the opposition.

Our poor run isn't all down to Leuluai by any stretch and he'll benefit more then anyone as the team improves but it's impossible to ignore that he's struggled on his return. There was some talk early in the year that he was leading the side around well and whilst he was slightly better then his current level, it's never been vintage and I hoped he would really improve as we got players back. He's obviously still got plenty of improvement in him as he gets to grips with playing alongside Bateman and hopefully Gelling but I'm struggling to convince myself that his kicking game will ever get to the level we need.

I sincerely doubt that.

I think George has been badly exposed this season. He's looked energetic, but under the pressure of having fewer top-line players around him has been more a headless chicken than an incisive halfback.

I'd be surprised if any SL club would cough up some of the figures being discussed at the start of this year, let alone the Aussies.

Which NRL half is he going to replace?

I think there's little doubt that George is far from the finished article,perhaps Sky if they can stop trying to hype him at every turn could tone things down that would a start,he is very much a work in progress but if he does break through then my he will be something special,but that does on the basis of the last couple of months does seem a ways off just yet

Well, quite, I've said that for a while. But don't get me wrong; I'm glad we've got him, and he can still improve a lot yet.

Well NRL clubs have been interested in him since the end of last year and his stock grew massively in Aus after the WCC when Andrew Johns (I think it was?) bigged him up.

None of these clubs will care that he's on a poor run of form. He's got natural ability, can win a game on his own and at 22 already has a better attitude than most experienced halves around.

Name me a 22 year old half that can still look his best with a load of rookie backs, no strike back rowers playing outside him and a pack that loses the ruck every game? And despite that he's miles clear on try assists in SL and is the only back in the top 8 players for offloads.



Ask me again in 2 years.

Currently off the top of my head - Blake Green, Nikorima, Townsend, Foran, Sezer, both Knights halves, Sutton

It's all about having the right partner for Williams. Get him an organiser with a long kicking game and he'll kill it in any league you put him in.

He's easily good enough for the NRL. You don't rack up the amount of try assist he has without having something about you. His form isn't great currently but even the best have the odd dip.

I'm glad he's here too. But I think he's got a lot further to go than I thought he had at the start of this year.