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| I would have settled for Smith putting in a decent last tackle kick in the second half, letting Wire start the set from their 20. I'm sure he threw a long looping pass to a forward (who had to kick it) on the last tackle four or five sets in a row. We were chasing the game and had half a chance to get a result and he looked to completely lose his composure...unless he was injured and didn't feel he could kick!
I've been a fan of Smith for a while, but he needs to get back to basics. Forget game management and leading the team round the park, he needs to focus on finding the man with the pass and putting a decent kick in at the end of a set. It's a worry that this is aimed at one of our most senior players and not a young lad!
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| Quote ="MadDogg"Tonight was the first time I started to think we should be considering a Tomkins/Williams partnership when they both recover.
No way around it - that was a desperately poor performance for a Wigan 7. In all areas- passing, kicking, running, defence and leadership.'"
We are so flat and very few runners which gives a Smith very few options. He also appears to be very close to the ruck on all ptb situations which again limits our options.
A new 7 wouldn't fix everything but for me is part of the rebuilding required.
We have no shape and devoid of any flair which unfortunately has to be attributed to Smith and/or the coaching.
Tonight was no different since Green left so for me a new 6&7 combination is a must but won't happen this season as ST I think will revert to FB.
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| I'd happy to ignore those who say Sarge can't pass, and give him a go in the halves. Tierney will do the job at f-b. Really, this can't go on all season, can it? BTW I was very impressed with Gregson; thought he showed some great touches and put in a good shift, and the other lads were fine as well.
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| Quote ="PurpleCheeseWarrior"We're a disjointed team at the minute with all the injuries and players playing out of position so I think it's a bit harsh to make Smith the scapegoat like always. Thurston would struggle to organise that team.'"
You're having a laugh, Smith wouldn't get a game at Pats. If we had JT we would not have been beaten this season.
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| Quote ="jonh"I understand the issue of being beaten in the pack and on the backfoot but that does not excuse his terrible passing accuracy under no pressure, his average at best kicking game and his continued failure to take control of his team since Green left.
He is supposed to be an experienced senior player, he offers nothing.'"
Green made him looked good. Even behind a dominant pack he is very poor.
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| Does anyone think he's carrying an injury? Or low on confidence? I think both to be honest and I think if we have Sam/Williams/Micky Mac and Lockers injured we definitely can't afford to rest Smith if he is injured.
In the other hand he could be low on confidence due to those players missing, he may have a slight injury therefore isn't playing his best rugby or kicking at his best and being slated on here.
I agree, Andy Gregory he is not but then again he's miles better than Moran.
Once we have a full team back with the threat of Williams and Sam taking the line on he may get back to his best. He does need to shape up because watching him last night he looked like a passenger and totally lacked a kicking/organising game. He does need to shape up and I'm confident that he has the ability to do so, he just needs to step it up a bit in the effort department.
All is not lost, he just needs to apply himself more.
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| Quote ="moto748"I'd happy to ignore those who say Sarge can't pass, and give him a go in the halves. Tierney will do the job at f-b. Really, this can't go on all season, can it? BTW I was very impressed with Gregson; thought he showed some great touches and put in a good shift, and the other lads were fine as well.'"
I have been very critical of Sarginson due to his poor passing however, in the last few games he does seem to be trying and to be fair without his energy and go forward we would be much worse in attack.
Wakefield will not be a pushover at the moment particularly with our blunt attack. I hope Bateman is back for that one.
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| Quote ="Itchy Arsenal"I have been very critical of Sarginson due to his poor passing however, in the last few games he does seem to be trying and to be fair without his energy and go forward we would be much worse in attack.
Wakefield will not be a pushover at the moment particularly with our blunt attack. I hope Bateman is back for that one.'"
Wane has confirmed Bateman and Flower as being back for Waley and potentially Dom Crosby.
They'll be much needed.
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| Quote ="NickyKiss"Wane has confirmed Bateman and Flower as being back for Waley and potentially Dom Crosby.
They'll be much needed.'"
Having Flower back will be a bonus.
Any news on Williams?
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| Quote ="post"Does anyone think he's carrying an injury? Or low on confidence? I think both to be honest and I think if we have Sam/Williams/Micky Mac and Lockers injured we definitely can't afford to rest Smith if he is injured. '"
No. I think his limited ability is being exposed because of the lack of our first choice full back, stand-off & hooker. If all those positions were filled by Tomkins, Williams & Macilorum, then Smith would be able to hide behind their ability and get by.
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| Quote ="post"Does anyone think he's carrying an injury?.'"
The fact that he is kicking, suggests to me that he is injured, and i think that a hamstring tweak was mentioned... Tho i'm sure that the confidence issue will be raised by others.... Carrying a tweak for me.
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| Quote ="post"Does anyone think he's carrying an injury? Or low on confidence? I think both to be honest and I think if we have Sam/Williams/Micky Mac and Lockers injured we definitely can't afford to rest Smith if he is injured.
In the other hand he could be low on confidence due to those players missing, he may have a slight injury therefore isn't playing his best rugby or kicking at his best and being slated on here.
I agree, Andy Gregory he is not but then again he's miles better than Moran.
Once we have a full team back with the threat of Williams and Sam taking the line on he may get back to his best. He does need to shape up because watching him last night he looked like a passenger and totally lacked a kicking/organising game. He does need to shape up and I'm confident that he has the ability to do so, he just needs to step it up a bit in the effort department.
All is not lost, he just needs to apply himself more.'"
I do think he's carrying an injury. The problem is he's been poor for a while. Lots of players play with knocks and still manage to play to a reasonable standard. A hamstring tweak doesn't mean he should be putting in poor passes from two feet away. Maybe it's affecting his kicking though, which is usually much better and one of his redeeming qualities.
If the injury is so bad that it's affecting his game to such an extent that he can't kick or pass then he shouldn't be playing, and considering he's been taking the ball into contact more in the last 2 or 3 weeks suggests he's doing fine running on it. He's passed up the goal kicking duties yet he's still taking drop outs and kicking to touch. Powell could easily take over those if the injury was that bad.
While he might be carrying a knock that's causing him problems I still think it's fair to expect more from him. At the moment he looks like a player who just can't cope without a partner in the halves who can do the actual playmaking and take the pressure off. Green was the real star for us in that partnership even though Smith got most of the praise, just like Daniel Holdsworth was the star at Salford when Smith got the praise from 2010-2012.
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| Quote ="Cherry.Pie"I do think he's carrying an injury. The problem is he's been poor for a while. Lots of players play with knocks and still manage to play to a reasonable standard. A hamstring tweak doesn't mean he should be putting in poor passes from two feet away. Maybe it's affecting his kicking though, which is usually much better and one of his redeeming qualities.
If the injury is so bad that it's affecting his game to such an extent that he can't kick or pass then he shouldn't be playing, and considering he's been taking the ball into contact more in the last 2 or 3 weeks suggests he's doing fine running on it. He's passed up the goal kicking duties yet he's still taking drop outs and kicking to touch. Powell could easily take over those if the injury was that bad.
While he might be carrying a knock that's causing him problems I still think it's fair to expect more from him. At the moment he looks like a player who just can't cope without a partner in the halves who can do the actual playmaking and take the pressure off. Green was the real star for us in that partnership even though Smith got most of the praise, just like Daniel Holdsworth was the star at Salford when Smith got the praise from 2010-2012.'"
Green was class, but your being harsh on Smith there. When Green tore his bicep against Leeds at the Magic Weekend in 2014, and was out for 3(?) months, Smith was excellent in his absence. He's struggling for top form but I think any half would be given the state of our team at the minute.
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| Im no fan of Smith, but on Friday he had his work cut out. Once SOL went off, there wasn't really any way back as the damage had already been done. We had to do so much shuffling of players that there was only ever going to be one result. We're missing Williams badly.
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| A lot of love in here for George Williams. I hope when he comes back and misses a tackle, or puts a pass to ground, you don't all get on his back too.
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| Speaking of half back options including Sarginson, from what I've heard he's nowhere near 100% either. A mate of his decided to come up for the game and Sarge told him he wasn't playing. He only confirmed that he actually was playing at 6.45 on game night. Of course, it might have been a minor thing and he could recover for next week...
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| Quote ="Smooth Stu"A lot of love in here for George Williams. I hope when he comes back and misses a tackle, or puts a pass to ground, you don't all get on his back too.'"
Although I'm not condoning either slating Smith or defending Williams the difference is Smith is a seasoned player, he just needs to sharpen up a bit.
Williams was carrying an injury before he was ruled out and gave some bad balls.
For me we need an Andrew Dunneman/Shane Millard type player to sign for us for the rest of the season to either fill in in the halts or push Powell to the halves and play at 9, if anyone has watched the NRL a lot recently I believe Isaac De Gois is out of favour at Parra? I know he was half decent 5 or 6 years ago is he any good or does anyone know of an alternative?
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| Watched de Gois last night in a cracking contest between the Eels and the Panthers. He did OK.
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| Quote ="moto748"Watched de Gois last night in a cracking contest between the Eels and the Panthers. He did OK.'"
Do you think he would do a job for us for the rest of the season?
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| Sure, but whether Parra would want to release him...
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| Did I dream it or did I read that Matty has a tight hamstring, which is why Josh has been kicking goals? We miss Micky McIlorum who took some of the pressure off. Sam Powell does his best but he's still learning his trade at hooker.
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| Another masterclass of shocking final play options, terrible attacking kicks and game management.
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| I thought Smith played well tonight. He was far busier and involved himself far more. He easily outplayed Luke Gale who I thought had an absolute shocker (especially his kicking).
I heard some people bag Mossop after his first spell which was off the mark also because I thought he was our best forward early doors.
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| Put some pretty good grubbers in tonight. Was decent in a tough game.
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| Can't agree on Smith. His passing accuracy is shocking with runners having to either reach behind or check their runs to take a pass. He put a couple of decent kicks in and even if he was slightly better this week, overall he's not good enough, consistently enough.
I thought Mossop went ok but I think Crosby deserves a mention. After 6 months out that was a cracking 1st game back. Bateman is just a freak! Love watching him play.
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