Williams needs to be given a good run in the side to settle into the role. Neither half back is being helped by the fact that we are struggling to make yards thus playing the majority of the game in our own half. They aren't helped either by the failure/reluctance of Bowen to link up with them in attack or step up as a 3rd pivot like Tomkins used to.

We are making it too easy for sides to get to the halves, we really do need some of the big men to step up to the plate.

You're looking to blame the wrong area of your team. Your forwards are soft and error prone (with and without ball).

Never thought I'd say that about a Wigan team a couple of years ago

Some quick thoughts as reading this site is fairly depressing atm



- McIlorum is really poor in attack this season, creating nothing. Logan was much more lively when he came on
- Mossop yet again showing just how inconsistent he is
- Discipline is still a disgrace, we have learnt nothing from the start of the season
- Williams and Smith combo will never work. George looks way more comfortable at 9
- Manfredi played well and kept Hall very quiet
- Handling is the worst I've ever seen it. We can't even do basic shift plays without at least 2 or 3 passes going behind/ahead of the next man or to ground
- Bateman has been far too quiet at loose

Wane finally admitting in the post-match interview that we gave away too many penalties.

Its not just the halves

totally lacking in any leadership. Its like there is an eerie silence befalls our players when we have ball in hand. No structure because its 13 individuals, just going through the motions.

Someone needs to start talking to the players and taking charge whilst on the pitch. Its all very well trying to lead by example, but you fall on your backside if no one looks like they can be bothered.

Williams looks totally out of his depth to me (and i dont think i have ever slated a young player on here), Smith looks like he is trying hard, but spends the whole game in his shell.

MM is just a passenger at the moment. He is cack going forward and his defense is labored and lacks any aggression. Thought Logan was our best player tonight.

JT was so so and Faz was absolutely pot. Has been terrible all year now.

Fair play to Budgie though, he looked a lot steadier. Dom M was not to shabby either.

its not good atm eh?

Williams, though, is not a 6!! He is a scrum half - preferably with Hampshire at 6.
The question is where does that leave Matty Smith. Bench 9 to spell MM if that is needed?
The problem with Conor Farrell is he isn't big enough - which is probably why Wane didn't put him on earlier.
Wigan might supposedly have a first team squad of 35 as keeps being mentioned, but where is there any size or power, particularly if a few players ( Flower and Lockers) are missing?
The problem may be that Wane is "too close" to the players he brought through the academy and junior teams - as Jonh has said, playing in a successful academy team should not guarantee your succession into the first team. Wigan have been crying out for a couple of big forwards for over a year - most teams seem to have several Antipodeans who are naturally bigger than most British players. Hence the shortcomings of the policy of mostly home grown/Wigan born players, when applied particularly to the forwards.
Cunningham and Long seem to have got it right at Saints - even the back row forwards are big units, including the young British lads.

There are and I was expressing some of them before the season started mainly about the centres given Thornley is injured and still inexperienced, Gelling isn't one and at the time I posted Sarge had done nothing of note there. At least he looks better than I expected.

The trouble is you have to throw in Williams at 6 as well plus Budgie is also inexperienced.

There is a lot of inexperience in first 13 slots. Going with an inexperienced 6 might be OK if the rest of the team were seasoned pros. He'd probably look a star in the 2010 or 2011 team with Deacon alongside him and lot of other experienced players about but he is one of many changes.

The question is who's fault is this? Did IL tell Wane that was the team he had so get on with it or did Wane convince IL it would be alright on the night? As I have said before I tend to think Wane believes his own propaganda at times and convinces himself that players like Williams are not just going to be OK but will be the next Sam Tomkins. I doubt IL [idoesn't[/i have a say as he holds the cheque book but I think Wane has said enough about this squad for me to think he really did believe it was all going to be fine and it was mostly his choice..



It would not surprise me. It's also clear some players wanted to leave Wigan and I am referring to Goulding and Taylor here. Taylor isn't at Hull FC despite supposedly wanting to return to Hull as his GF was homesick and Goulding clearly wanted away. Why? I don't think homesick or new challenge are realistic reasons to leave a club expected to be challenging for the honours.

If I remember correctly IL stated at the pre-season dinner that this was the finest team so far during his reign. Bizzare at worst, wishful thinking at best there Ian.

The team next week is going to be interesting.......!

Where does Wane go from here?

Will he give Hampshire a chance at 6 - or just play him at 1 to give Bowen a rest, so he is "right" for Good Friday?!!

And what about the forwards.....?

Might they persuade Jordan James to come out of retirement to add some "experience"....? At least he would be cheap as he is already on the payroll!

If only we had Goulding now.

He'd add some much needed experience to our back line and it would allow us to move Gelling into the pack to give us extra size.

He must have learnt that trick from Hetherington, who says that every year.

As a Leeds fan, couldn't believe how bad Wigan were tonight. We should have battered you & it's our own fault we didn't. Wane said post-match that Wigan "dominated Leeds for long periods", but I've no idea what game he was watching if he thought that. Even when Wigan were ahead they'd had one try-scoring chance to about four that Leeds managed to butcher.

If you're talking about halves, I thought Green was the best half-back in the league and it's obvious to an outsider that he carried Smith through last season.

End of the day you can only replace quality with projects and youngsters for so long then it will eventually start to catch up with you!
•wane stated after the WCC defeat to roosters we wern't big enough, why after the defeat to the Broncos was he still saying were not big enough??
•discipline cost us the grand final,why now 5 months on is it still a big problem?
• what the hell is this "Different" type of rugby he talked about actually achieving??

Sadly although he is wigan through and through his limitations as a coach are being exposed....he's the sort of guy that will tell you to run through a brickwall all day what he doesn't know is how to tell you to get round it.

Couldn't agree more.

Summed him up in a nutshell.

Love to see us go a little left field and get someone like Garth Brennan in as the next coach.

42 year old academy coach at Penrith who was linked the Newcastle Job when Bennett left. Seems to be highly thought of down under and it's just a matter of time before gets an NRL head coach gig.

I thought the same

Waney can try as many combinations of halves as he likes but they won't get anywhere until he sorts out the forwards. First half only two in a tackle, Leeds offloaded at will and made 60 mtrs every set.
Mossop has to play to get consistancy.
Mic Mac doesn't look fit, he looks tired out or injured. Logan to start v Wakey.
Clubb I thought was our best forward.
If Crosby is fit next week he should start v Wakey as he's big at 6'4".
Joel is inconsistent in the tackle and ball in hand runs too far out wide taking the room Gelling and his wingman should have. That needs sorting and quick.
Farrell needs benching and replacing in the 2nd row by Gelling.
Don't know who should go to 13, Bateman is being asked to play a different position every week.
Last week Williams was a bench 9 this he's 6. Last week Patrick was 13 this week it's Bateman.
No wonder nothing is working.
As for the halves I'd go with Hampshire at 6, Williams at 7 with Smith on the bench.
The Latics play later today then no game at the DW 'till GF. The pitch might, just might be in better condition to give our fast backs the space and sure footwork they need.
First job is 3 and 4 man tackles to stop the offload. That's a big part of Saints game, if we give Walmsley & Co the room we gave Cuthbertson then it will a very long 80 mins.

What about the forgotten man that is Sam Hopkins?

He's a big unit but I guess he doesn't wrestle well vs Wane in training.

He's back at Leigh full time.

I'd have hoped we had the option to recall him if required.

Good bit of business from the club there. Sign a guy for 2 years and don't give him one shot at a SL or CC game.

Yes, nobody has impressed that much this season, but it doesn't alter the fact that Wigan were very poor.

I don't think you can really blame the halves at the moment. They've got nothing to work with. We're not making any real impact down the middle and the play the ball is slow and laboured. As a result the attacking line is getting bunched together and flat. There's not much the halves can do. If they try to organise the players into a deeper attacking line we're going to lose ground. It's too hard to be expansive from a slow play the ball yet Wane's tactics generally involve sweeping moves from side to side.
There's also no real attacking threat provided from fullback. Bowen is skilful. He proved that with a lovely catch and pass to Gelling before Smith's try. Unfortunately though he's just not offering a big enough threat and that is further stifling our attack.

Williams had some good moments but also got caught in possession too many times. We have to be patient though. That's a result of playing U19's rugby for a strong side. Often it was his best option to run the ball or take it into contact and it will take a while for him to break that habit. What he'll need is consistent game time and reviews after the game to show where he's going wrong and what needs to improve. All of our young halves will require patience to fix areas of their game.
If Hampshire was playing he'd probably need to be given time to improve his defence. Powell will need time to develop a more effective running game when required and use it more often. Some people seem to expect ready made halves but that's seriously unlikely these days. Whoever plays there will probably need patience and we will probably have a weakness there at times. It's just the sacrifice you have to make to bring through a young halfback while trying to remain a top side. Wigan and other clubs need to do it though or we might as well kiss goodbye to ever having a decent international side. The short term thinking of clubs in this regard will get us nowhere.

If we can get the forwards to make more of an impact down the middle and increase the speed of the ruck we might be able to judge Williams and Smith (or any of the other halves who get a game) on what they are really capable of.

Perhaps being yelled at and bullied by your coach 18 times a week isn't conducive to a good dressing room atmosphere. Man management is a complex science, Wane seems to have a single way of behaving and treating his players.

The only player I have ever heard criticise Wane is Gareth Hock, the rest of them would run their blood to water for him. It's easy to knock the coach when things are going bad, but when we turn our form around the same people will be waxing lyrical about him. The knee-jerk reaction on here has been laughable. Ancient and Loyal? Yeah right

Running your blood to water for the coach sometimes isn't enough mate. If the is no quality in key posotions then effort Isnt enough.

I said before the start season that green shouid have been replaced and how I thought your pack was to small and lacked quality.

The is no doubt wane can get his players up for games but I'm not sure he's clever enough rugby wise to be able to change things when not going your way.

Only time will tell. I don't believe your anywhere near as bad as you lot making out. I'm pretty sure you'll make top 4. Teams have blips and Wigan having theirs now.

at the moment he isnt