Have to agree, Lowe was way ahead of his time and I often think that we are who we are in the world of RL because of that man.

For me there are two names in Rugby League that I can never imagine being challenged in my own personal reverence for them: Ellery Hanley on the field and Graham Lowe off it. Shaun Wane is an amazing coach and is perfect for the Wigan of today, but it's too early to be laying "best coach ever" accolades on him yet.

He would t have been half the coach, without the maguire influence. Maguire turndd you from a mid table team to campions within a year, and with the same players. Fortunately for Wayne he happened to be under his tutorage

Absolutely correct, but those are reasons why Shaun Wane is a spectacular coach, not reasons why he isn't. Personally I think he has surpassed Madge as far as leadership of the Wigan team goes. Madge was a revolutionary and his impact blew the rest of SL away in his opening season, but opposition teams adapt, imitate, learn, and eventually start to defeat you. Wane has built on the successes of Madge and incorporated his best assets into his own successful style of coaching whilst learning from the mistakes they both made.

I think that the assumption that SW needed 2 years of MM to become successful is pretty dismissive considering the record SW had at junior level.
There is no doubt that having a period as assistant helped, but it also created a level of expectation that MM never had to deal with.
Given this additional pressure and at the same time having to cope with the lure of both the NRL and RFU make SW's achievements even better than MM in my eyes.
SW is already one of the better coaches we have had, and with a continued sustained level of success he can truly be ranked with the best.

People are crediting MM alone with the culture change at the club. While he was undoubtedly a big part of it, I think the change of ownership played a significant part of the philosophy of the club as a whole. Getting rid of Lindsay and Whelan and getting IFL in their place marked a total shift in the way the playing personnel were recruited, retained and paid.

Very much so, and the addition of Mark Bitcon and Rads should not be underestimated either.

Any new thoughts?

Nothing like stirring things a little

Aye, the beggars don't let the grass grow beneath their feet do they before having a swipe?

I was wondering who would chuck this grenade

To be fair it is a daft thread. A good coach, yes, the best coach in our history, or the SL period, no. That's not to say he'll never get to that level, but he's in Maguire's shadow for now IMO. In the time I've been watching I'd rank our coaches thus:

1. Maguire
2. Wane
3. Gregory
4. Raper
5. Noble
6. Endacott
7. Betts
8. Millward

I wish things had turned out better with Mike Gregory. He could have been the best of the lot

Monie , Lowe, West, Maguire all better than SW...in SL then yes Wane has to be up there for the work he has done with the youngsters..but i feel that he has hit the ceiling and it may be time to consider bringing in someone new

Joke surely?

One game with 7 players missing against a cracking Castleford side isn't anything to get too hung up about. I can't think of another Wigan coach that has had to and continues to have to put up with having his best players sold from underneath him yet he just carries on getting results. One blip doesn't tarnish the incredible job he's done and continues to do.

I'd give him a five year deal yesterday.

Who were the 7 we had missing? Surely you're not including players who simply weren't selected? We had four missing - Thornley, Green, Clubb and Pettybourne

Charnley, Goulding and Taylor would clearly be selected if all were well so that's my 7.

Going off point a little though. The major point is we're disrupted at the moment due to injuries and players being sold off again. Wane has an unbelievable amount to contend with yet in the main does an incredible job.

To suggest he's reached some sort of ceiling is one of the craziest things I've seen written on here.

Charnley, Goulding and Taylor not playing - man management? Other teams manage to get players who are leaving to perform, Wane opts to cut his nose off to spite his face.

If they were fit to play they were not missing. They just were not selected and if so that is a rod the club made for its own back by deliberately leaving out three of our best players while sending out players clearly not match fit into the bargain.



He has certainly had a lot to contend with given the player turnover at Wigan but he certainly didn't do his coaching credentials any good v Cas IMO.

He didn't coach Jack Hughes to give stupid penalties at a crucial stage of the game. That's what lost it for us.

When you consider the circumstances around SW's tenure as coach, he has made a very decent fist of it and shouldn't be judged solely on Saturdays game.

That's a rather simplistic view of it. What about the 50odd% completion in the first half? Or the amount of time in the second half we spent camped on their line and failed to score more than one try? Seemed like any time they got within 20 metres of our line they got over it. Hughes and Hampshire's penalties were the final straw but there was plenty going wrong before either of them got on the pitch

Agree about plenty of other things going wrong but in-spite of them and the calamitous completion rate, we were very much in the game and Cas looked like they were tiring at the point the penalty was conceded.

Think if Wane did anything wrong, it was by leaving Hampshire on the bench for as long as he did. Apart from that, it was imo injuries and errors, not poor coaching that lost it for us.

Shaun Wane is an outstanding coach.

Bewildered by the criticism of him.

Love him to bits

Charnley has been out for 2 months plus so he's surely 'allowed' to be counted.

As for Wane cutting his nose off with the others that may be the case but it may also be that he doesn't think their form or attitudes were up to scratch. In an ideal world were everything was rosy he'd call on Taylor and Goulding but either he couldn't or wouldn't due to reasons only they know.

We don't know either way for sure but it's just another example of the challenges he's faced and has to keep on facing. To win a LLS, challenge cup and Grand Final in your first two and a half years in charge is a superb record. All that achieved during a time you've lost 10+ first choice players makes it all the more impressive.

I don't think Gouldings form warranted selection. Looking at his stats he has only gone over the 100 meter mark once this season and then only just. www.superleague.co.uk/matchday/player/1806 On Saturday Gelling made 151 and Sarginson 128. They also did their fair share of defending.

I don't think Gouldings form warranted selection. Looking at his stats he has only gone over the 100 meter mark once this season and then only just. www.superleague.co.uk/matchday/player/1806 On Saturday Gelling made 151 and Sarginson 128. They also did their fair share of defending.

Quote ="Rogues Gallery"I don't think Gouldings form warranted selection. Looking at his stats he has only gone over the 100 meter mark once this season and then only just. www.superleague.co.uk/matchday/player/1806 On Saturday Gelling made 151 and Sarginson 128. They also did their fair share of defending.'" Rather strange justification. I'm sure Gelling will make more metres than Goulding as he's effectively a back row whilst Goulding is a proper centre. Gelling's average gain is better than Kallum Watkins too but I'm not sure Leeds will be offering a swap deal any time soon ps fair play to Gelling, I've given him some stick in the past and although I've not seen a lot of Wigan recently (and missed the game on Saturday) it sounds like he's doing a good job.

Quote ="Rogues Gallery"I don't think Gouldings form warranted selection. Looking at his stats he has only gone over the 100 meter mark once this season and then only just. www.superleague.co.uk/matchday/player/1806 On Saturday Gelling made 151 and Sarginson 128. They also did their fair share of defending.'" Rather strange justification. I'm sure Gelling will make more metres than Goulding as he's effectively a back row whilst Goulding is a proper centre. Gelling's average gain is better than Kallum Watkins too but I'm not sure Leeds will be offering a swap deal any time soon ps fair play to Gelling, I've given him some stick in the past and although I've not seen a lot of Wigan recently (and missed the game on Saturday) it sounds like he's doing a good job.

I'm pretty sure that SW would have picked the side that gave him the best chance of winning. To suggest otherwise is I think foolish.

Charnley has been out since early April and wasn't ready. Goulding's form doesn't warrant being picked ahead of Gelling or Sarge. Taylor, I'm pretty sure, has been carrying an injury since before Magic. The rumours around his move to Hull are just that at the moment. If he doesn't want to play for Wigan anymore then maybe that's why he's been left out. If that's the case then SW decides if he's in the right frame of mind to risk him. Comparing Taylor to Sam /Lee Mossop/Pat etc is pointless. The situations are completely different.

And if anyone is suggesting that SW can't get the best out of the players at his disposal then they are stark raving mad.

Finally, for the sake of balance. His comments before the game were ill-judged. I don't think they did him any favours. Maybe he'll learn from it. In fact - I'd put money on it.

As I said near the start of the thread Wane is not the best coach in our history. What he is, is a bloody good coach who is doing a great job and still learning. One cup QF loss does not change that. Sometimes we just have to acknowledge our opponents played better than we did.