Defence wins matches and Saints defence is not good enough.

I felt before we played them on Good Friday we were definitely in with a chance given their defensive record provided we didn't do as we had been doing up till then and end up 12 or 14 nil down in the first 20. We didn't and in the 2nd half shut them out but their defence continued as it has been doing all season and leaked points.

It's OK to concede 20 or 30 odd if you can score more but come up against a side that can defend and you have a problem if that is how things are going.

There is time yet for Saints to sort this out for the play offs so I would not write them off but if they can't fix the defence they won't win the GF either.

For the last couple of years, we've seen Saints bigged up early season by the School of Wishful Thinking that is Eddie and Stevo.

I don't think they are massively off the pace in SL, but there are lots of flaws in their game - as was exemplified on Good Friday and again today (by two opponents from the table's top end) - plus, there is far too much chat about how amazing the St Helens youth production line is. The likes of Eddie and Stevo really need to learn that constantly saying something is great will not make it great if it isn't. With the exception of Lomax, and we can't really call him a youngster any more, these kids are not high level SL standard. That break Watkins made today was embarrassing. The two defenders looked absolute fools as they lay sprawled in his wake.

The big test for them now will be how to cope after couple of weeks that saw the unstoppable St Helens express literally derailed. Will their mental strength be up to it? They'd better hope so.

What a difference a week makes. It was only last week that Stains were the real deal and were better than us "on paper 1 to 25", Makinson was a shoe-in for international honours and Walsh pretty much had MoS sown up.

Now it's:

"season over"
Fans offering each other out - keyboards to be drawn at "5.30 Starbucks East Lancs" over a skinny latte, and
"LMS should never play again".

I can see why they call their site the Entertainers.

I'm glad i'm banned from the site.. I would have lol's all over it.. It's hilarious... lol

My thoughts exactly.

The saints board is fecking hilarious right now! My favourite is that 'silverwood is an imbarresment to RL'

Whatever that is

Leeds were 8 points up and had to defend a few sets close to their line, i'd hardly call it rocking.

Well the excuses I'd heard over the last week were the losses were due to Saints taking it easy until they met Leeds in the cup. This was the big one and one where we'd see them back to their unbeatable best!

To be fair I thought they'd got themselves back into the game, they were 8 behind with 10 to go but had a bit of momentum. Amor getting injured killed it off. They lost all momentum at that point and from then on looked a beaten side.

Burrow reminds me of halfbacks of the past, Andy Gregory types who run across the line trying to draw players in then either putting a player through or suddenly going through themselves.

Why have those types of players gone from the game in exchange for a right or left side halfback as they are today?, I think they are called second receivers (left and right). Are Wigan not capable of having the Burrow type of game as an alternative to the famous well known structure when required.

Looking on the Leeds forum, Burrow has aparrently broken his collar bone. Some suggesting 10-12 weeks out.

We'll I expected a far more intense game I think what we did to them on Good Friday has hit them hard physically and mentally, roll on Friday should be a good test

TBH I thinks the signs were there in the games vs Hudds and Cas when they scraped over the winning line (and should've lost both.) They looked shot and spent physically which is alarming considering we're only 10 league games in.

With Amor struggling with injuries and Roby overworked they have little left without them two at their best lifting the others around them.

I thought this period would be make or break for Saints and so far its been an epic failure. Top side atm is Wigan with Leeds & Cas not too far behind. Wigan v Leeds should be a cracker.

Due to your backline I'd have Leeds as the team to beat this year but we do seem to be able to rise to the challenges in the big games. I wouldn't write Saints off yet though. They will have a few weeks rest now due to their cup involvement ending and when they play with confidence they can put plenty of points on. I also think Wire will be dangerous at the back end of the year when Russell, Ratchford and Myler/O'Brien have bedded in as that creative triangle. As for Cas they're having a great weekly round season but they'll get burned against any of the teams I mention in a knock out game. They're the 2014 version of Huddersfield of 2013 only not as good.

I'm not surprised, one of the useless 1-25 stains players purposely extended his stride so he could plant his knee into the poor fellow. That should be a 6 match ban, but yet again it was missed by the officials and a lot of rugby fans by the look of it.

mash butty is that a saddend post by any chance?

Leeds look the exact same side from last year and I'm not sure if Briscoe is an improvement on BJB (he has ripped us up a few times), but we aren't the same side and its still to be seen wether we are better or worse. Just hope both teams give it there all and it will tell us a lot about our selves.

I would agree with you, they seem much the same to me, neither better nor worse overall just a very solid outfit at their best. Friday may reveal more about us than them!

I wouldnt mind if we drew them in the QF of the CC, Burrows is the only player who scares me in the Leeds team. Going back to the Burrows incident, that was a malicious knee, and if that was a Wigan player who had done that the other fans would let us know about it www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b0 ... St_Helens/ 2h:02m: 19s replay

I wouldnt mind if we drew them in the QF of the CC, Burrows is the only player who scares me in the Leeds team. Going back to the Burrows incident, that was a malicious knee, and if that was a Wigan player who had done that the other fans would let us know about it www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b0 ... St_Helens/ 2h:02m: 19s replay

This a great test to see where we are as I agree Leeds do look like the same side as last year but they've tightened up their defence massively and I think they have a greater threat in open field with their back 3. Hardaker is on fire, Briscoe has added a lot and Hall is the class that he always is.

Think the key to us getting them is if our pack can stand up to them like we did at Warrington and Saints. They've a few older forwards and some who aren't world beaters and if we can get on top of them we should do OK with the skill we have in attack

Quote ="Mash Butty"I wouldnt mind if we drew them in the QF of the CC, Burrows is the only player who scares me in the Leeds team. Going back to the Burrows incident, that was a malicious knee, and if that was a Wigan player who had done that the other fans would let us know about it www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b0 ... St_Helens/ 2h:02m: 19s replay'" I can't see a problem with that. Just an accident IMO. As a RL I have much more of a problem with Delaney's spear tackle on Greenwood about a minute before the Burrow incident. Clearly lifted and driven into the floor. Greenwood was fortunate he got his elbow down to soften the blow. I'm very suprised this hasn't been mentioned elsewhere.

Quote ="Mash Butty"I wouldnt mind if we drew them in the QF of the CC, Burrows is the only player who scares me in the Leeds team. Going back to the Burrows incident, that was a malicious knee, and if that was a Wigan player who had done that the other fans would let us know about it www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b0 ... St_Helens/ 2h:02m: 19s replay'" I can't see a problem with that. Just an accident IMO. As a RL I have much more of a problem with Delaney's spear tackle on Greenwood about a minute before the Burrow incident. Clearly lifted and driven into the floor. Greenwood was fortunate he got his elbow down to soften the blow. I'm very suprised this hasn't been mentioned elsewhere.

Quote ="Mash Butty"I wouldnt mind if we drew them in the QF of the CC, Burrows is the only player who scares me in the Leeds team. Going back to the Burrows incident, that was a malicious knee, and if that was a Wigan player who had done that the other fans would let us know about it www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b0 ... St_Helens/ 2h:02m: 19s replay'" Nothing at all in it. Just poor tackling technique.

Quote ="Mash Butty"I wouldnt mind if we drew them in the QF of the CC, Burrows is the only player who scares me in the Leeds team. Going back to the Burrows incident, that was a malicious knee, and if that was a Wigan player who had done that the other fans would let us know about it www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b0 ... St_Helens/ 2h:02m: 19s replay'" Nothing at all in it. Just poor tackling technique.

Quote ="Mash Butty"I wouldnt mind if we drew them in the QF of the CC, Burrows is the only player who scares me in the Leeds team. Going back to the Burrows incident, that was a malicious knee, and if that was a Wigan player who had done that the other fans would let us know about it www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b0 ... St_Helens/ 2h:02m: 19s replay'" Can't see anything wrong with that

Quote ="Mash Butty"I wouldnt mind if we drew them in the QF of the CC, Burrows is the only player who scares me in the Leeds team. Going back to the Burrows incident, that was a malicious knee, and if that was a Wigan player who had done that the other fans would let us know about it www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b0 ... St_Helens/ 2h:02m: 19s replay'" Can't see anything wrong with that

Give over.

Joe Greenwood isnt Craig Smith.

Back on topic.

Expecting a good game. Best 2 teams so far.