The 'Brigantes' were never banned, a couple of people that attached themselves to the group got bans from the DW (but not from away games), the others finished for other reasons.

Most of the people I know personally, many of whom have been going for decades.

It's not the only problem for sure, but it's surely plain as mustard that we are never going to reconstruct a Wigan dynasty in the old style as long as we are constantly on the verge of losing exciting young players - you can say goodbye to Taylor and Charnley next season, and maybe Shaun Wane too.

If you don't think that's a cause for some disenchantment among fans, then I admire your optimism. But I do agree there are many other factors well beyond our control.

I agree with the point that seeing 5 or 6 established players leaving every season is disheartening, and I think this is the major reason for the steady decline in ST ticket numbers and average attendance over the the last couple of seasons. I don't personally think it's something a lot of fans are considering when they are in the stadium watching a game, however. Our home games now seem to be made up of dull wins against the lesser teams and convincing defeats to the top teams, until this trend is bucked I can't see much improvement in the atmosphere.

We've been spoilt in recent years with success and obviously with a big bulk of players gone we're back in a rebuilding process again as the quality is nowhere near the same in certain positions, centres and props mainly for me.

Going back to the success we've had, we have also watched the old enemy dip in form over the recent seasons but they've slowly been building and that's why they are ahead of us and Warrington so far this season. They probably will finish higher than us in the league, whether or not they will win the GF is another question but they are certainly in a much more stable position than us and that's because they've had a couple years rebuilding where really this is our first. Although we're not playing particularly well at the moment we're still getting the results. We're just going to have to be patient for a while and see if we can step up another couple of gears.

Then I stand corrected but for gods sake let's get them back again.

if we win Friday no one will give a tuppence

Until the next god awful home performance, probably on Monday !

I fully agree with what you are saying about being in a rebuilding process.

Unfortunately the fact that we are in our current position is one the reasons for fans being peed off. We should NEVER have been allowed to slump into our current position. It was only 2010 when we had a world class coach, a quality assistant and a team brimming with quality young players set to put a decade of dominance in the history books.

For me it's then a kick in the teeth for Wane to come out with his comments. He should really hold his words and realise many of these fans have followed Wigan for decades. They've remained loyal through some of the poor Whelan years (06 springs to mind) and have recently got behind the side in record numbers.

Fans aren't muggs. They can see other clubs keeping hold of their best talent but yet the complete opposite happening at Wigan. Fans aren't going to be happy watching us go 10-0 down to London knowing that a few years ago we had a team that would rip them apart and smash them in defence.

The Wigan club should be looking more at themselves rather than slating their own fans.

the point of the SL is to make the play-offs and ensure that over the season you learn your best setup, and protect your best players for the play-offs.
Winning against London and learning that a few players are not up to it (Dudson) but others (Williams) are worth perservering with, is invaluable.

I dont want us to win the LLS and enter the play-offs with green backups and a word out 1st XIII

Bingo. You play to the system you're given. Under this system the best method is to rotate the squad through the year and prepare for the play offs and cup games. Next season will be different when we need to aim for top 2 (min 4th) rather than top 4 (min 8th) during the regular season

With the way the league is now the first 2/3 of the season mean very little. Form means nothing, you need Form for the last 5-6 games. We've don't it previous and so have Huddersfield, no point blasting away now only to burn out.

We're also missing an marquee player or two who can put bums on seats. A Barrett, Robinson, Tomkins or anyone else who can lift the crowd. I'm more concerned with the level of mediocrity in SL in general. It's quite worrying when you consider what's going on in the NRL every weekend...

Having sad that, i'm not overly happy with the slow starts and discipline issues which seem to have crept into Wigan's play...

In that case it may be time for a plan B in marketing (even though Wigan do not seem to have one on the field),
They should work out what they think a season ticket should cost and then manipulate the charges as follows.
First two thirds of the season charge 30% less that the seasonal figure arrived at and for the last third of the season (when everyone says is the only time that matters) charge 30% over the average.
This post as been done with tongue firmly in cheek, the only problem is some fans may think it is the way forward.

Whilst I can understand what you are saying the problem is that those marquee players when they were here were taking up over 30% of the salary cap.

Sure, completely understand that, which is why IMO the salary cap has to go up (i'd give London an even higher cap) to make Super League more competitive. Otherwise, all our best talent will continue to leave...

It's the same argument that has gone round and round pretty much since the SL salary cap was introduced. The cap needs to go up to prevent the top stars from leaving to other codes/leagues that can afford to pay higher wages, but not enough (if any) SL teams could afford to pay those wages even if the cap allowed it, and some of the ones that probably could afford a higher cap have said they don't want it to increase anyway.

The SC hasn't really acheived one criteria it was supposed to by spreading the top talent throughout the division, many of the best players from the "lower" teams still end up moving to the "bigger" clubs. But until every club is able to comfortably spend the full SC each year, and still function as a business, is there any viable alternative?

The dilemma really is do we raise the cap to a level that only 3 or 4 teams would be able to afford, leading to a bigger gulf in standards between the top SL teams and the bottom ones, but by doing so allowing those 3 or 4 teams to be able to match offers coming in from Union or the NRL?

You cant favour any team with a higher cap, that would make a complete mockery of promotion and relegation.
But raise the cap all round, to something like infinity for those who can afford it

I'm sure London already have a higher cap related to the vastly higher cost of living down there.

I was just looking at Bowens stats from Friday. www.superleague.co.uk/report/9961 Top metre maker. Lockers and Pettybourne were good, Dudson dreadful. Back to Bowen he's already in the top 10 for tackle busts and clean breaks despite playing less games. Not bad for a crock with dodgy knees. www.superleague.co.uk/stats/player_stats

I was just looking at Bowens stats from Friday. www.superleague.co.uk/report/9961 Top metre maker. Lockers and Pettybourne were good, Dudson dreadful. Back to Bowen he's already in the top 10 for tackle busts and clean breaks despite playing less games. Not bad for a crock with dodgy knees. www.superleague.co.uk/stats/player_stats

How Dudson still gets a spot in the team is beyond me. He surely must have something incriminating on Wane.

Dudson has never kicked on from when we first signed him. He got himself fit so fair play to him but he's never used that as a positive. He doesn't run his weight, his defence is suspect and his discipline is poor. I've been waiting for him to have that moment where the penny drops like it did with somebody like Sam Moa at Hull but it doesn't look like happening.

It's a shame because physically he's got everything he needs.

That would be true if Wane was playing a computer game caled "SL Championship manager" or something where the only person he had to please was himself.

Meanwhile back in the real world sport is supposed to be about entertainment and the fans want entertaining.

The majority of fans don't sit there thinking yet another naff disjointed league performance doesn't matter.

If it[i really[/i doesn't matter the fans will simply stop going and eventually we really won't have a team worth watching.

I completely agree. Never mind 2010, we have gone from double winners to a rebuilding process in an off season. That is just poor. Fans can see this and are frustrated when it manifests itself by poor performances against the liles of London with not that many changes to the team.



Many predicted problems at Warrington as they hung onto players too long. Our problems are because we don't hold onto players long enough and/or manage the departure of key players well enough.

If we get too many "trial" games where the coach is putting in too many back-up players fans especially season ticket holders will begin to think why bother paying for a season ticket. They will get a membership card and pick and choose the games they want to go and see based on the 19 named 48 hours before the game.

I have been a ST holder for 30+ years now and this season is the first time I that I will consciously pick which away games to not bother attending based upon the team put on the park. Whether I carry this forward to next season will depend on the performances this year and the clubs policy on retaining and replacing top players...

I don't want to watch the club turn into a feeder for the NRL......

I agree 100% with your last 2 posts Dave. The turnover of players has to stop, all the excitement of being Champions is being eroded. When we were rubbish it didn't matter that players came and went because well, we were rubbish anyway!

In 2010 we got one new player and a new coach, we won the title with a settled squad.

2011-2013 - ok we had some comings and goings but we still managed to hold together a strong core of a squad. The incomings were exciting young players that were phased in; Tomkins, Farrell, Charnley. At the same time our longer-standing players were hitting their peak; O'Loughlin, Hansen, Richards. Even the likes of Tuson and Mossop, not world beaters but they should have been held on to. What do other clubs do that Wigan can't?

This season has been the tipping point for me. There was a time when you could easily reel off Wigan's best 13/17 without even thinking about it. Now, who knows?!