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| Quote ="the ditch"Must be shocking to loose a game cos of a forward pass!!!'"
Who said that ?
No one on this thread.
Read the all thread if you are able ? |
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| Quote ="Father Ted"The pitch now has whitewashed lines across the field every ten meters and so often a pass is thrown one side of the line and caught on the other side.
No good reason for not looking at forward passes.'"
Quote ="100% Warrior"Look at where the Hodgson was when he passes the ball and then where Joel Monaghan was when he caught it. How anyone can say that wasn't forward is beyond me.'"
Quote ="Dougy"Hodgson was about 13 or 14 metres from the try line when he passed the ball. Monaghan was about 6 or 7 metres from the line when he caught it. How is that not a forward pass?'"
Quote ="fleabag"I would say about 10 yards forward. The lines are there to help in stuff like this.'"
A pass is forward if the player throws it forwards, not if the ball goes forwards. The ball will often travel forwards because the player who threw it was running forwards. You can not judge whether a pass was forward in terms of meters or where the passer was when he threw the ball. |
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| Quote ="the ditch"Must be shocking to loose a game cos of a forward pass!!!'"
Only if it was a tight one! |
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Quote ="Grimmy"You can not judge whether a pass was forward in terms of meters or where the passer was when he threw the ball.'"
Aye. I don't see that there's any excuse for people not understanding this, we were taught about momentum prior to GCSE level Physics in school and I doubt my school was out of the ordinary in this.
I don't understand what the big deal is. Drive in a car at 2mph and throw a tennis ball up in the air and catch it again, the ball travels forward in relation to the ground at the same speed as you are moving. If at 10mph you throw it (gently) to someone in the back seat, the ball has gone backwards relative to you, but forward in relation to the ground. Simples. And, as you say, it means you simply cannot use the markings on the ground as an indicative guide, the only way you can really gauge the momentum of the ball relative to the player is to see where the player and ball are at in relation to each other at all times. (This, of course, is still open to 'cheating', as the bloke who threw the pass could deliberately speed up, hence why the referees look at the hands of the player passing the ball, as it's the only practical way they have of determining it from 'ground level')
I like the sound of this, though: m.dailytelegraph.com.au/sport/nr ... 6108565226
Seems like they plan to do live vector calculations to determine if the ball is propelled forward or backward. |
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Quote ="Grimmy"You can not judge whether a pass was forward in terms of meters or where the passer was when he threw the ball.'"
Aye. I don't see that there's any excuse for people not understanding this, we were taught about momentum prior to GCSE level Physics in school and I doubt my school was out of the ordinary in this.
I don't understand what the big deal is. Drive in a car at 2mph and throw a tennis ball up in the air and catch it again, the ball travels forward in relation to the ground at the same speed as you are moving. If at 10mph you throw it (gently) to someone in the back seat, the ball has gone backwards relative to you, but forward in relation to the ground. Simples. And, as you say, it means you simply cannot use the markings on the ground as an indicative guide, the only way you can really gauge the momentum of the ball relative to the player is to see where the player and ball are at in relation to each other at all times. (This, of course, is still open to 'cheating', as the bloke who threw the pass could deliberately speed up, hence why the referees look at the hands of the player passing the ball, as it's the only practical way they have of determining it from 'ground level')
I like the sound of this, though: m.dailytelegraph.com.au/sport/nr ... 6108565226
Seems like they plan to do live vector calculations to determine if the ball is propelled forward or backward. | |
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| Quote ="Grimmy"Bingo. It always baffles me how few people understand the rules of our game.'"
I dont understand the rules of bingo either.  |
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If the whole point is the ball can go forward but not leave the hands forward why can't the video ref be called on to judge how the ball has left the hands?
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| Quote ="Barrett was robbed"If the whole point is the ball can go forward but not leave the hands forward why can't the video ref be called on to judge how the ball has left the hands?'"
Fair question - unfortunately the RFL simply refuse to liaise with fans on issues like this, not even to provide clarity on why things are as they are. You could always write to them and ask but I wouldn't hold your breath for a reply! |
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Try the all MP's rugby league group?
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I know the video refs aren't great, especially one in particulary but which is preferable?
Do we rely on the ref and linesmen in open play who have proved pathetic or do we go to the video ref who can look carefully at the pass?
No contest.
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| Quote ="Fantastic Mr Cat"same bloke didn't see hock elbowing the 'best second rower in the league' in the face either.
useless he was'"
They did see the Goulding tackle on Riley that was high , then it wasn't, then it was, then it wasn't. Funny how the linesman come running on the pitch waving their flags in wigan games, its also funny how they ask the video ref to check everything that wigan do.
But when you get a pass thats 7 metres forward............... |
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After reading some posts on here when is a pass forward and when is it not? I always thought, if the player passing the ball was on the attacking 10 metre line and the player recieving it recieves it on 9.99m away from the attacking goal line it is forward. If it goes 10.01m from the attacking goal line then it is a good pass. Or am I wrong?
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| Quote ="fatbaztod100"Or am I wrong?'"
Ish. If the player's stood still when he throws the ball you're spot on. If he's running forward then you're wrong. Ish. |
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| Quote ="fatbaztod100"After reading some posts on here when is a pass forward and when is it not? I always thought, if the player passing the ball was on the attacking 10 metre line and the player recieving it recieves it on 9.99m away from the attacking goal line it is forward. If it goes 10.01m from the attacking goal line then it is a good pass. Or am I wrong?'"
Yep, you're wrong. It was explained pretty well earlier in the thread - it has to go backwards relative to the passer, not the ground. If you're running forwards and gently toss the ball behind you, the ball will still travel forwards relative to the ground. |
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You learn something new every day then! So in reality as long as the recieving player catches the ball behind the line player that has passed is then it is a good pass then, no wonder there is all this confusion about forward passes.
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Dead simple, it's so Cummins ( the RFL) still have some control over a way of influencing results.
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So in theory no pass is forward if the passing player continues to run, arrr I get it now, actually its simples
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| Most people appear to be accepting the fact that the ball must travel backwards in relation to the player who passed the ball.
Now bearing this in mind, watch the try again, especially the replay, and concentrate more on the players (particularly Hodgson) and see where Hodgson (who is running at an angle and certainly not speeding up) is in relation to Monaghan when he (Monaghan) recieves the ball. This may help
The pass looks to be ridiculously forward because the the camera angle where the ball appears to be clearly travelling forward and straight at the camera. But in relation to Hodgson the ball does appear to go backwards! |
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| Quote ="Thelonius"Most people appear to be accepting the fact that the ball must travel backwards in relation to the player who passed the ball.
The pass looks to be ridiculously forward because the the camera angle where the ball appears to be clearly travelling forward and straight at the camera. But in relation to Hodgson the ball does appear to go backwards!'"
The last time I laughed this much was watching Les Boyd playing for the Wires |
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Not as funny as watching Finch spit his dummy at the time though!
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| Quote ="Thelonius"Not as funny as watching Finch spit his dummy at the time though!'"
Which wasn't as funny as Atkins getting selected for England |
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| Quote ="Thelonius"Most people appear to be accepting the fact that the ball must travel backwards in relation to the player who passed the ball.
Now bearing this in mind, watch the try again, especially the replay, and concentrate more on the players (particularly Hodgson) and see where Hodgson (who is running at an angle and certainly not speeding up) is in relation to Monaghan when he (Monaghan) recieves the ball. This may help
The pass looks to be ridiculously forward because the the camera angle where the ball appears to be clearly travelling forward and straight at the camera. But in relation to Hodgson the ball does appear to go backwards!'"
Sorry but black is black and white is white; your explanation is like the picture, blurred and out of focus. The pass was forward, Wire won well, we lost. Why does it matter so much to Wire fans? I don’t know any Pie who thinks it would have made any difference.
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| Quote ="pies-r-us"Sorry but black is black and white is white; your explanation is like the picture, blurred and out of focus. The pass was forward, Wire won well, we lost. Why does it matter so much to Wire fans? I don’t know any Pie who thinks it would have made any difference.
'"
It's chip paper now, so makes no difference. But for what it's worth I thought it was a clear forward pass at the game, I thought it was a clear forward pass watching it on Sky when I got home, and I still thought it was a clear forward pass when I watched the Super League Show. In fact, I still do think it was a forward pass, but not as clear as I first thought.
Watching it back, regardless of the camera angle and apparent trajectory of the ball, Hodgson is in front of Monaghan as he receives the pass so the ball must have gone backwards relative to Hodgson. It is this, rather than general ineptitude or a conspiracy against Wigan, that may well have stopped Ganson, or his touch judge, from calling it forward. |
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| Quote ="Thelonius"It's chip paper now, so makes no difference. But for what it's worth I thought it was a clear forward pass at the game, I thought it was a clear forward pass watching it on Sky when I got home, and I still thought it was a clear forward pass when I watched the Super League Show. In fact, I still do think it was a forward pass, but not as clear as I first thought.
Watching it back, regardless of the camera angle and apparent trajectory of the ball, Hodgson is in front of Monaghan as he receives the pass so the ball must have gone backwards relative to Hodgson. It is this, rather than general ineptitude or a conspiracy against Wigan, that may well have stopped Ganson, or his touch judge, from calling it forward.'"
I think the problem I have with this pass is that Hodgson was running at and angle, and not flat out. So we have a ball that 100% traveled forward over the ground and in my opinion also forward when taken relative to Hodgson's speed towards the try line v's the travel over the ground. I simply don't see that Hodgson would covered the same distance towards the Wigan line before the ball got to where it is shown in the photo. |
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The easiest way I found watching the pass on tv was that Hodgson passes the ball two meters one side of the line and Monaghan catches it two meters in front of the line.
Why the TJ's can't see this I don't know, perhaps he did, then told Ganson who ignored him.
The forward pass should be judged by the VR.
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