On dodgy hodge as well!!!! If your embarresed by HIM you know somethings wrong!!!

Dodgy must be loving amos for making him look good!

Very good point mate!! The whole point of loaning players out to other teams is because they aren't quite good enough to make the grade at your club and to develop them to the next level.

Id say its virtually unheard of for a club in any sport to loan out a player to a club who finish higher than them in the league and shows that something is very wrong in the team selection at the said club!!

The fact that Mossop was good enough for a sustained run at huddersfield, and vievers and davies are deamed good enough for wakefield, teams finishing above us in the league, yet the players are not considered first team for us shows something is not quite right in the selection policy!!

If we're looking to loan out next season at least do it right and bin off riddell, fielden and roberts to salford, celtic, and harlequins respectively!

If we are going to loan out players to another club because we cannot give them game time I would rather they go to Wakey than anywhere else!

Felt really sorry for him on Sunday. He is such a frustrating player to watch. The last few weeks his form has picked up and he has been playing a lot better. One minute he can make a break and make us good yards from a kick return and then next miss a tackle on David Hodgson.

I have no doubt he will be a great player for us next season. A new coach will tell him how it is, perform or we have Ainscough waiting to take his place.

So to at the time retain the services of Goulding and Mossop, we would have to have dropped one of Gleeson and Carmont in the case of Goulding and Hock, Bailey, Hansen, Tomkins or Locky in the case of Mossop.

Which players would you have dropped to retain them and what would you have done with them?

In the case of Vievers we would have to drop 1 of Roberts, Richards and Phelps, this is of course without considering using Ainscough.

For Davies to get first team action it would be at the expense of Fielden, Feka, Coley, Prescott, O'Carrol and from time to time Mossop.

A team that finishes higher than us in the table does not always have a full team of individuals performing better than the team finishing lower in the table.

Hudds had a relatively weak backrow with injuries and even at full fitness it is not one of there stronger areas, Salford had no real quality centre and finished way down on us anyway.

Its about balance, someone s always going to miss out, by loaning the players that are up to SL level but not with the current Wigan team out we are building that golden generation, and it is in fact in my opoinion the only way to do it, given the weakness of the Reserves comp.

It's not focussed on dropping players for the sake of it although there are several in the team who should justifiably have been dropped this season, it's about giving others their chance over a full season, maybe in 2-3 game spells or off the bench. There are always going to be injuries through the season but we prefer to rotate the same 19 rather than bring others in.

We haven't given anyone homegrown a 1st team debut this season other than Ainscough, we should have earmarked at least 4 to have a bite at 1st team rugby.

S. Tomkins? An easy game against Whitehaven in the CC could hardly be classed as 'given a chance'.

Exactly. Sam should have played some more games last season.

Pryce has been given a chance this year, Tomkins has been given a chance, Flannagan, Aiscough, Mossop was allowed to prove his worth at another club prior to returning to us which was justified given the strength we have in the secondrow.

All this talk of giving or not giving young lads a chance is just that talk. It is too difficult to assess them in the reserves we have a pretty good team apart from in the Props where we are week. Both Prescott and O'Carroll have had a chance in the Props this year as has Mossop.

It is unrealistic to give them all a shot, hence exposing them to first team rugby and giving them a run is the idea way to go about it. 3 games in a year you may as well not bother, let them go and assess there ability to cope elsewhere, where is the risk or problem with that? I cannot see one personally, in fact i think it is a great way to go about it and a way that all clubs with strong youth teams seem to go about business.

Flanagan is a perfect case. Knocking about the place for 2 - 3 years without a sniff of 1st team rugby. Injuries forced Noble to give him a shot -against Leeds, Saints and Warrington in the semi and he acquited himself well on debut at the very highest level. So if he can play at that level why the hell wasn't he given a chance earlier? The club doesn't seem to have a clue when a player is ready for the 1st team, hence the delayed progress of Tomkins, Ainscough, Mossop, Flanagan, etc.

Oh and Leeds' policy of bringing their youth through doesn't seem too bad.

Leeds regularly send player out on loan from there juniors.

Flanigan was playing first team at Halifax last year hence earning his stripes and developing as a player, he was not ready for first team in my opinion prior to this move, his time at Halifax saw him play in an increasingly intense comp over and above the reserves.

Who would you have dropped/replaced Flanigan for? Locky our club captain, or when he was injured Joel Tomkins a young lad brought through from the reserves (after a loan spell with Widnes).

Perhaps he could have gone in at 6, but then again we had Barrett playing there, players like Barrett cannot be dropped or rested.

This reminds me of our great teams, people didn't want to get rid of Hanley but this enabled us to bring Clarke through, didn't want to get rid of Potter but we did this and brought Betts through. Kiss / Dermott likewise. Edwards, Farrell, Robinson in very young and it didn't harm them. If you're standing still in sport you're going backwards.

But how are we standing still by loaning our players out? If anything they are progressing much faster getting regular rugby at another club rather than being stuck in the reserves and given 3-4 games a year.

I see the point of blooding kids but with the salary cap nowadays and limited squad depth, it is certains injuries will occur meaning kids get their chance eventually. That's one of the main reasons 1st team players aren't dropped randomly for kids.

I have seen nothing to suggest he will be. If I am right what then? [size=59If I am wrong read, my sig.[/size

As to his form picking up he has continued to have poor games throughout the season (and no that doesn't mean all his games have been poor for the grammatically challenged but he did not suddenly hit consistent good form).

Dave

I know you don't but into a settling in period for overseas players(and thats fair enough) but i just think he'll be better prepared now he's settled into the side and the country.

He has improved from the start of the season imo but i'll agree he throws the odd shocker in now and again. Thats an area for him to work on. He seems to struggle for concentration at times which lets him down now and again.

I'm possibly just being optimistic that a new coach will bring about an increase in form from a number of players. If we look at the impact Tony Smith had on King and Monaghan it shows what can be done and neither of those were preforming aswell as even Roberts has.

So we should loan the next Edwards / Farrell / Robinson out?

Thats one hell of a player

Sad to think that they are all now plying their trade on the Dark Side....

Sending players out on loan offers them the opportunity to experience a different atmosphere and a different regime from the one they've been cocooned in for whatever number of years.

However good the coaching ability of your backroom and development staff they simply can't teach every player every aspect of being a professional rugby league player. They almost certainly don't have the range of coaching experience that someone like John Kear will have.

Therefore it has to be beneficial for a young player to spend time learning from all these other experiences that they simply could not get if they stay put.

At the same time the space vacated by those juniors has to be taken by another junior therefore offering that player an experience he couldn't have gained otherwise.

JohnH!

Looking back over the season Cudjoe or Lawrence?

Yes if they are not good enough to play first team at the moment and it helps there development. Obviously.

This is going round in circles. And they prove they are good enough by?

Performance in the reserves, or taking the chance when an injury occurs, or where you have a large squad where they are down the pecking order like many of our younger quality players are by going out on loan and showing they can handle the step up from the Reserves.

What is the big issue here? Surely you want young players when they are introduced into our first team to play well and make an impact and for all this talk of us handling them badly pretty much all the guys who have had to step up have taken their chances well. Surely this proves we are doing something right?

This season we have seen players get their first taste of SL by being thrown in at the deep end. Sam Tomkins and Ainscough did not go out on loan prior to making an instant impact at SL level. Ainscough with zero SL experience and Tomkins with one game against Haven in the challenge cup. Tomkins is 20 not 17 or 18 and so when people say we have not handled the young players well he is the prime example.

He went from one game in 2008 to 20 games in 2009 and does not look out of place. This says to me he has been held back, not handled well. Ainscough is similar and Mossop went to Barrow for a few games then had Huddersfield singing his praises and saying just about everything they could about how good he was without being accused of trying to entice him over there.

Flannagan went to Halifax on loan but is another player who has had to wait until he is in his early 20's to get a debut. Had he been given a sniff earlier in his Wigan career he might not be so keen to go to Oz and his g/f might have found it harder to persuade him to go!

The question of who would you drop to give such players a chance ignores the fact our first team players are not the greatest and of course there is always the subs bench.

Sending players out on loan is fine but I get the impression some people have suddenly decided that is the only way to do it. Send the young players out on loan and let other clubs teach them their trade is a bit presumptuous IMO. You are going to get some young players as good as Faz and Rads were in their day that are special talents who ought to be brought into the first team younger than age 20.

Dave