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| Quote ="RB"In place of ... ?'"
Roberts would seem the only guy at risk.
Saying that whilst watching the game live i though Roberts had been very quiet on Saturday but after watching the replay he actually did pretty well. He mades rafts of yards and came up with a couple of very important tackles late on.
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| Quote ="Nucking Futs"His defence is a liability, as much as his attack is fantastic. I wouldn't put him in there.'"
Saying his defence is a liability is completely overstating the case.
If this bandwagon carries on he will end up believing it. His coach uses the excuse (and it is an excuse - he's ready) he isn't the finished article not to play him and some fans have decided his defence is a liability when he has made no worse defensive errors than many others in the back line such as Phelps, Roberts and even Pat.
Dave
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| Quote ="DaveO"Saying his defence is a liability is completely overstating the case.'" Totally agree with this point.
Quote ="DaveO"If this bandwagon carries on he will end up believing it. His coach uses the excuse (and it is an excuse - he's ready) he isn't the finished article not to play him and some fans have decided his defence is a liability when he has made no worse defensive errors than many others in the back line such as Phelps, Roberts and even Pat.
Dave'" I don't remember Nobby using his defence as an excuse though.
Personally I don't know who'd i'd place in the back 3 positions. Phelps has proved himself at FB, Richards, Roberts & Ainscough are all decent wingers. I suppose the obvious one is Roberts to miss out but I'd doubt anyone playing on our right wing would have done better. He doesn't get the same quality ball or space as the left wing.
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| Quote ="DaveO"Saying his defence is a liability is completely overstating the case.
If this bandwagon carries on he will end up believing it. His coach uses the excuse (and it is an excuse - he's ready) he isn't the finished article not to play him and some fans have decided his defence is a liability when he has made no worse defensive errors than many others in the back line such as Phelps, Roberts and even Pat.
Dave'"
Agree with all of that.
To me he's made a couple of errors from kicks in his time in the first team and then all of a sudden he's being made out to be this fumbling idiot in comparison with Kevin Penny in some parts.
You can't help but feel that the next time he plays for the first team all eyes will be on him now and the pressure will be huge. If he makes any sort of defensive error he's going to be bashed from pillar to post by all opposition fans and his own coach the man that should be protecting him has done him no favours.
It's a good job the lad looks mentally strong because he's going to need to be.
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| Quote ="Alphabetti Spaghetti Go!"Wash your mouth out son!'"
and bring me your fathers gun...etc...etc ![Smile icon_smile.gif](//www.rlfans.com/images/smilies//icon_smile.gif)
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| Quote ="DaveO"Saying his defence is a liability is completely overstating the case.
If this bandwagon carries on he will end up believing it. His coach uses the excuse (and it is an excuse - he's ready) he isn't the finished article not to play him and some fans have decided his defence is a liability when he has made no worse defensive errors than many others in the back line such as Phelps, Roberts and even Pat.
Dave'" ,
How much reserve / academy rugby have you watched? Ainscough is a great prosect but has severe flaws in parts of his game.
He will get further chances this season, but IMO he needs a lot of work doing on his game.
Be honest, how many of his tries have been walk ins?
His time will come.
If you had been there v Saints reserves last week then I'm sure you would have seen why I'm saying this.
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| Quote ="Nucking Futs"His defence is a liability, as much as his attack is fantastic. I wouldn't put him in there.'"
Yep, much like Martin Offiah, really... ![Wink icon_wink.gif](//www.rlfans.com/images/smilies//icon_wink.gif)
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| Quote ="NickyKiss"Agree with all of that.
To me he's made a couple of errors from kicks in his time in the first team and then all of a sudden he's being made out to be this fumbling idiot in comparison with Kevin Penny in some parts.'"
Exactly. The attention that has been focused on his few errors is over the top.
Quote You can't help but feel that the next time he plays for the first team all eyes will be on him now and the pressure will be huge. If he makes any sort of defensive error he's going to be bashed from pillar to post by all opposition fans and his own coach the man that should be protecting him has done him no favours.'"
Spot on. His defence was no worse than others in the side so was IMO a none issue in that sense. Of course he needs to improve it but so do some of our established players. He is no different from them.
Unfortunately there is now a body of opinion that he has a serious issue and as you say he will be under the spotlight when he does return.
And you are dead right Noble has done him no favours because it looks as if he has been left out because he has this problem with his game so the spotlight will be on.
What Noble should have done is simply not dropped him and if questioned about the odd mistake simply dismiss it as something we can live with because he scores more than the lets in or some such words. Off field of course he could get Rads working with him but I see no reason defensively for him to be dropped or to have remained out of the side. If he was still in the side under those circumstances and scoring tries there would be no pressure but now when he comes back what is everybody going to be doing? Bombing him with kicks and the fans will be watching him like a hawk.
In short this was IMO a none issue until our esteemed coach made it one to justify his selections.
Quote It's a good job the lad looks mentally strong because he's going to need to be.'"
I hope so because if he starts to worry about catching bombs more than scoring tries it will be Dodgy Hodgy MkII in the eyes of some fans.
Dave
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| Quote ="Rogues Gallery",
Be honest, how many of his tries have been walk ins?
'"
I don't rememeber too many Ade Gardner style walk ins tbh.
His first try against Cas was a beauty, his 2 at Quins were superbly finished, his second against Saints was an awesome finish, one of his 4 at Wakey was superbly finished down the line, a couple of his trys at Barrow in the cup took some finishing ect etc.
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| Quote ="Rogues Gallery",
How much reserve / academy rugby have you watched? Ainscough is a great prosect but has severe flaws in parts of his game.
He will get further chances this season, but IMO he needs a lot of work doing on his game.
Be honest, how many of his tries have been walk ins?
His time will come.
If you had been there v Saints reserves last week then I'm sure you would have seen why I'm saying this.'"
So he had an off day in one game. If you watch a lot of reserve RL how many times has he done that? I do not recall any posts from people who regularly watch the reserves qualify their calls for him to be included in the side before this season that he was a great prospect but had has severe flaws in parts of his game.
Having watched him this season in SL I do not believe he has "severe" flaws at all. No more so than Phelps who while a good attacking full back isn't the most solid in defence IMO and has yet to be severely tested.
Dave
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| Quote ="DaveO"So he had an off day in one game. If you watch a lot of reserve RL how many times has he done that? I do not recall any posts from people who regularly watch the reserves qualify their calls for him to be included in the side before this season that he was a great prospect but had has severe flaws in parts of his game.
Having watched him this season in SL I do not believe he has "severe" flaws at all. No more so than Phelps who while a good attacking full back isn't the most solid in defence IMO and has yet to be severely tested.
Dave'"
Quite a few, unfortunately.
At the moment he is third behind Richards and Robers in his "all round game"
But, he has time on his side and I'm sure will return to first team action at some stage in the season.
I'll let you know how he goes on Saturday, why don't you come down and see for yourself?
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| Quote ="Rogues Gallery"Quite a few, unfortunately.
At the moment he is third behind Richards and Robers in his "all round game"'"
Based on what I have seen which is SL he is at least Robers equal all round and far better in attack. He can even catch the odd bomb as he did v Barrow and make 50m's returning the ball.
You are the first to my knowledge to state he has had quite a few such defensive lapses in the reserves. I know Geoff who posted above watches them so perhaps he would care to comment?
Quote But, he has time on his side and I'm sure will return to first team action at some stage in the season.
I'll let you know how he goes on Saturday, why don't you come down and see for yourself?'"
I can't, there is a limit to how much time I can spend travelling from Chester to Wigan. I hope to be at the Chester Gladiators fixture instead!
Dave
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| Quote ="DaveO"Based on what I have seen which is SL he is at least Robers equal all round and far better in attack. He can even catch the odd bomb as he did v Barrow and make 50m's returning the ball.
You are the first to my knowledge to state he has had quite a few such defensive lapses in the reserves. I know Geoff who posted above watches them so perhaps he would care to comment?
'"
A couple of errors, no more, and in those extremely windy conditions that was a pretty good effort. If anything, it was the missed tackle on Eastmond that bothered me more than the two mistakes under the bombs.
Incidentally, for those who say most of his tries were walk-ins, he also leads SL in clean breaks, and from only 9 appearances.
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| Geoff it was also the lost ball just before half time that led to Saints second try.
Vievers rescued him by taking the difficult bomb but then Ainscough ran from acting halfback along his own line and lost the ball.
As I have said so often it's work in progress. His time will come.
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| He's not the biggest lad, but neither was Robinson.
What is more worrying is that he doesn't seem to compete under the ball really. He rarely gets off the ground, I have been to a few reserves games, but only really picked it up this season. So I haven't really seen more than anybody who only watches the first team of him.
Still, the lad is only going to stagnate in the reserves. I think he'll still get played this season, it will only take a knock to Roberts, Richards or Phelps and I'd stick a tenner on him coming in and having an absolute stormer and cementing his place.
Alla Mcilorum, who surely can't be dropped after his performances. (step up nobby)
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| IIRC I don't think Noble actually said his defence needed working on???
Didn't he say there were a few things to work on but isn't that the case with any player???
Isn't it the Fans on here who are the ones who have picked up on his missing of 3 or 4 kicks and made it into an issue? I don't remember Noble actually mentioning his kick defence!
Certain people keep piping up with "Noble uses the excuse that he's not the finished article" as though Noble is saying he won't pick him until he's perfect. Well he didn't!
He said he has areas of his game that he needs to work on.
He didn't say he wasn't ready/Good Enough/ Better or Worse than Roberts/Richards or anyone else.
Isn't the none selection of Ainscough just another reason for the "Noble Out" brigade to gather their pitch forks?
NOBLE SHOULD PICK THE TEAM THAT HE THINKS WILL WIN US THE UPCOMING GAME! END OF!
Thereis no conspiracy against Ainscough, there is no pig headedness on Noble's behalf in not picking him, there is no problem with Ainsocugh's game that means he can't be selected in future "IF" Noble thinks he is the Best person to do the job for Wigan for that particular game!
He just thinks that Phelps/Roberts/Richards is the better option for this game.
End Of!
And Rogues, your wasting your time mate!
The constant regurgatating of any possible Bad Press on Noble is what some people want!
Please don't feed them, It's not worth it!
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| Quote ="Batesy"He's not the biggest lad, but neither was Robinson.
What is more worrying is that he doesn't seem to compete under the ball really. He rarely gets off the ground, I have been to a few reserves games, but only really picked it up this season. So I haven't really seen more than anybody who only watches the first team of him.
Still, the lad is only going to stagnate in the reserves. I think he'll still get played this season, it will only take a knock to Roberts, Richards or Phelps and I'd stick a tenner on him coming in and having an absolute stormer and cementing his place.
Alla Mcilorum, who surely can't be dropped after his performances. (step up nobby)'"
as much as i dont understand why he was dropped in the first place, we've then not lost a game and played well in all/most of them.
Therefore i can't really have a go at noble for dropping him because its obviously paid off. You can say we don't know what would have happened if ainscough was still in, but we couldnt have done any better with him in could we? We've won every game.
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| For the first time in years we start to build a squad that has cover in it, and all people can do is moan !!!
The whole point of a squad is that you have people in the reserves to cover injuries, losses of form and burnout.
The lad will just have to wait his turn. The same way that Tim Smith did.
If he is to become a decent pro, it is part of the game he has to learm. This is his first full season - lets just enjoy the fact that we have good reserves for once.
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| Quote ="inside_man"as much as i dont understand why he was dropped in the first place, we've then not lost a game and played well in all/most of them.
Therefore i can't really have a go at noble for dropping him because its obviously paid off. You can say we don't know what would have happened if ainscough was still in, but we couldnt have done any better with him in could we? We've won every game.'"
Exactly.
I'm not moaning that he should be back in because i don't think he should with the way things have been going but then i don't really think he should have been out in the first place.
To be in this situation is no bad thing as we have 3 very good wingers and all of them would get in most if not all the other superleague teams sides.
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| Quote ="Nucking Futs"His defence is a liability, as much as his attack is fantastic. I wouldn't put him in there.'"
What a load of rot! I'm getting quite sick of seeing this on this site tbh.
He missed a couple of kicks to the corner, I've not seen him miss a tackle though. Besides when you average nearly 2 tries a game...
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| Quote ="Jukesays"IIRC I don't think Noble actually said his defence needed working on???
Didn't he say there were a few things to work on but isn't that the case with any player???
Isn't it the Fans on here who are the ones who have picked up on his missing of 3 or 4 kicks and made it into an issue? I don't remember Noble actually mentioning his kick defence!'"
Well what aspect of his game do you think he was referring to then? Do you think it unreasonable to assume this was an area Noble meant?
Quote Certain people keep piping up with "Noble uses the excuse that he's not the finished article" as though Noble is saying he won't pick him until he's perfect. Well he didn't!'"
No, you are putting words into people mouths. No one has said he won't pick him until he is perfect.
Quote He said he has areas of his game that he needs to work on.
He didn't say he wasn't ready/Good Enough/ Better or Worse than Roberts/Richards or anyone else.'"
Who said he did?
Quote Isn't the none selection of Ainscough just another reason for the "Noble Out" brigade to gather their pitch forks?
'"
You can take it that way if you want as I am sure you will because it takes the discussion away from discussing the actual merits of the decision.
Quote NOBLE SHOULD PICK THE TEAM THAT HE THINKS WILL WIN US THE UPCOMING GAME! END OF!'"
And we can debate his team selections because that is one of the things a discussion forum is about - END OF.
He keeps leaving the leagues top try scorer out and if that isn't worthy of debate I don't know what is.
Quote Thereis no conspiracy against Ainscough, there is no pig headedness on Noble's behalf in not picking him, there is no problem with Ainsocugh's game that means he can't be selected in future "IF" Noble thinks he is the Best person to do the job for Wigan for that particular game!'"
No one has suggested there is conspiracy against Ainscough but rather Noble is doing as he has done in previous seasons and stuck with his senior players which you can not deny he has done and is doing again. What we are doing here is debating the merits of that.
Quote He just thinks that Phelps/Roberts/Richards is the better option for this game.
End Of!'"
No its not the "End of" anything unless you want to ban all debate about controversial team selections of course.
It wouldn't be so bad if you argued against what people actually wrote instead of what you suggest has been written to make your point.
In this post you have suggested:
People have said Noble has said he won't pick him until he's perfect.
That people have suggested Noble has said he isn't ready ans said he is not as good as Roberts etc.
There has been a conspiracy against Ainscough.
None of these things have been suggested at all to the best of my knowledge.
Dave
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| Quote ="Enicomb"
He missed a couple of kicks to the corner, I've not seen him miss a tackle though. Besides when you average nearly 2 tries a game...'"
Thats what gets my goat a little tbh.
he hasn't been getting caught out on the outside like say Sykes and then Gardner were in the world cup against Vatuvai and he hasn't been caught out like Gardner was against Ainscough himself down his line.
I'm not saying he should be back in now but people need to step back when criticising him. It's going to ruin him before he's begun.
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| I have tried to reply sensibly but reply being "messed aroud"
Are we being censored??????
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| Quote ="DaveO"Well what aspect of his game do you think he was referring to then? Do you think it unreasonable to assume this was an area Noble meant?
So it's ok fo r you to assume without any disclaimer but not anyone else?
No, you are putting words into people mouths. No one has said he won't pick him until he is perfect.
Pedantic once again! You know what was meant!
Who said he did?
A lot of people were! A lot of people have been mentioning on this and many other posts that Noble won't pick him because of his defence or Kick defence.
I was merely pointing out he has NEVER said that! But I guess this is one of those occasions were it's ok for you to ASSUME what Noble means before picking up on anybody who doesnt agree with the DaveO party line when they Assume/infer things!
You can take it that way if you want as I am sure you will because it takes the discussion away from discussing the actual merits of the decision.
And as stated previously the merits of the decision are that WIgan have won All the games since the initial Ainscough None selection and then reinclusion at Wakefield and to suggest we would have done worse/better in any of the games after that with or without Ainscough is pure speculation!
And we can debate his team selections because that is one of the things a discussion forum is about - END OF.
You carry on Dave, but IMO there's a difference in discussing things and continually labouring points to try & prove your POV as being the correct one!
He keeps leaving the leagues top try scorer out and if that isn't worthy of debate I don't know what is.
It is, and by all means carry on. Just don't think your fooling anyone that this is more about getting at Noble, as your many posts on many subjects always refer back to him with continual sideswipes and barbed comments.
No one has suggested there is conspiracy against Ainscough but rather Noble is doing as he has done in previous seasons and stuck with his senior players which you can not deny he has done and is doing again. What we are doing here is debating the merits of that.
No, your saying he is sticking with his senior players inferring he won't give youth a chance. (You can come back with whatever remarks you want as I know thats what you mean) when we have a squad (The 19 on Friday + O'Carroll/Riddell/Ainscough etc) that is comparable in age to ANY SL Squad in the country.
How do we know that Riddell didn't play Saturday as He picked Mac in front of him or is that just another one of your Assumptions/Facts?
How many games have Ainscough/Tomkins played this year considering at the beginniing of the year Many people would have been happy with 15 apiece for the whole year? Plus soem of these have been at the expense of more senior players who were available at the time i.e Tomkins over Smith and Ainscough over Roberts.
No its not the "End of" anything unless you want to ban all debate about controversial team selections of course.
Another Pedantic remark to discredit someones views, "End of" means He should pick who he thinks will win him that game.
Not that it shouldn't be debated but that posters who use his decisions to have another go at him are doing it for that purpose alone and your continual reference back to Noble at every oppurtunity shows to me that this your intention.
It wouldn't be so bad if you argued against what people actually wrote instead of what you suggest has been written to make your point.
In this post you have suggested:
People have said Noble has said he won't pick him until he's perfect.
That people have suggested Noble has said he isn't ready ans said he is not as good as Roberts etc.
There has been a conspiracy against Ainscough.
None of these things have been suggested at all to the best of my knowledge.
Yes they have Dave
They have suggested that Noble won't pick Ainscough because he has Flaws in his game.
Noble said he has areas to work on, not that he won't pick him unless these areas are improved or eradicated. He is just picking another player or a team over Ainscough because he thinks this is the better option.
People are debating wether Roberts or whomever is better/worse than Ainscough aren't they?
By implying that Noble is picking his tried and tested players over youngsters you are also inferring that Noble picks these tried & tested players over youngsters wether they are better than them or not.
I don't believe he does, you obviously do asnd you say that I " can not deny he has done and is doing again".
I'll tell you what Dave, I can deny that he's doing it again because he's picked Tomkins over Smith and previously Ainscough over Roberts.
Why do I think he's picking Roberts over Ainscough this week? Because I think Noble Thinks he is the better option for this week and all your debate over this is there to have a Pop at Npble and suggest that he deliberatley doesn't play youngsters who are better than their seniors, I don't belive that is true.
Dave'"
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Player Coach | 2570 | No Team Selected |
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| The OP should change this thread to "Not in the 19 to face HKR"
Talk about thread drift.
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