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There was absolutely no point to that forum. None. Letting around 120 people from a fan base in the thousands, and interested parties in the tens of thousands, know a few 'secrets' was pointless and a slap in the face for those deemed not important enough to know what was said. Who the hell thought that was a good idea and what did they hope it would achieve?
It doesn't even matter what was said or if it was truth or lies. It's a complete irrelevance.
The club is a shambles. They can't even get something as simple as this right. Look at the bad feeling they've caused with what, handled correctly, should have been a positive, bridge building exercise.
As a season ticket holder for over 30 years I've never felt more distanced from the club.
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| Quote ="robbie1408"I have had a profile on this site for a while and this is the first time I've posted anything for years. I completely agree with the above sentiment in full as it pretty much sums up my position at the moment. A season ticket holder for 25 years and this is the first time I've contemplated not renewing. I feel that I'm just falling out of love with Wigan and am also disillusioned with what has and hasn't happened over the last few years. The way loyal fans are being treated over the forum issue is poor at best but that isn't the single reason though it has brought things to a head for me.'"
spot on, i feel exactly the same |
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Strange times at the moment. People will have got out of the habit of going, due to covid, the match day experience hasn't been great when we've been allowed back in this season, and the reluctance to let anyone know what happened at the forum, bar the 120 who attended is without a doubt leaving a lot of fans feeling disillusioned with the club.
There's always been that insistence from some fans that we need to know every single bit of information, when we actually don't, but a little bit of info regarding the fans forum would certainly go a long way to appeasing the masses. Even if it's just a short statement saying when it will be released. It's certainly not fair that only a select percentage of fans have been allowed to be "in the know" and then they've been asked not to share too much.
With regards the Edwards saga... Wigan Leeds Andy has stood by his statement pretty much from the start and he's by no means a rumour monger. I'm inclined to believe what he's insinuating but I have no real desire to question him regarding the details. He's never come across as an "I know something you don't know" type. I'm more than happy to consign the Edwards issue to the history books now. It was nearly 3 years ago.
The Burgess statement seems baffling. His hip issue seemed to be common knowledge yet KR seems to be saying we caused it? He then states that Burgess turned up well overweight.
The information I think is more important is the stadium situation, our current financial situation, our squad situation and coach situation.
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The more this goes on the worse it seems. At first I thought, well, they aren't live-streaming it, but it's going go to be covered in a detailed interview with Phil Wilkinson the the next day. And then that didn't happen. I can see no mention of the event on the club website news page.
What is the point of even telling 120 people if you're going to keep the other 90% of fans in the dark, or relying on dodgy accounts on social media? Or, indeed, relying on Jukes to go over and above the call of duty on here (and get insults for thanks). It's almost like it's encouraging divisiveness.
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| Quote ="Pemps"
There's always been that insistence from some fans that we need to know every single bit of information, when we actually don't, '"
Agreed. My attitude is, I know you can't tell us everything. But just this: whatever you do tell us, make sure it's the truth. |
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| Quote ="MadDogg"Who was the last 'top quality' player the Wigan academy brought through? Gildart maybe (1st team debut in 2015)?
Its not meant as a criticism as such but whilst the academy has always been effective at developing a good quantity of SL / Championship standard players, perhaps not as effective in recent years at developing top quality.'"
We also seem to produce a lot more forwards than backs, especially centres.
Over the years we have produced:
Fullbacks - Hanley (Still unproven).
Wingers - Burgess, Manfredi, Marshall, Davies (All proven but none for a while)
Centres - Gildart, Halsall (Unproven)
Halves - Williams, Hampshire, Smith (Unproven) |
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| Quote ="Pemps"
The Burgess statement seems baffling. His hip issue seemed to be common knowledge yet KR seems to be saying we caused it? He then states that Burgess turned up well overweight.'"
More that we pushed him to the limit than actually causing it.
When Burgess was available for selection in 2019 he was picked, so he was hardly a crock. |
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| Quote ="Egg Chasing"More that we pushed him to the limit than actually causing it.
When Burgess was available for selection in 2019 he was picked, so he was hardly a crock. Past injury? Yes. Did we manage that injury how we should have done? Probably not.'"
The statement / story told by the club could be linked to the insurance payout also so they may have to tread carefully for legal reasons. |
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| Quote ="nathan_rugby"The statement / story told by the club could be linked to the insurance payout also so they may have to tread carefully for legal reasons.'"
Or the club signed a crock and we can blame IL and KR for it |
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| Quote ="Egg Chasing"Or the club signed a crock and we can blame IL and KR for it'"
But we did sign a crock. Signing a player who is unable to train to full fitness and giving them marquee money is just crazy. Again I'll ask; who at the club thought that was a good idea?
That said, if they can't admit their mistake for insurance or similar reasons then that is understandable. The signing however is not. |
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Well he must have been able to train to full fitness at Souths because they kept picking him.
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| Quote ="Phuzzy"There was absolutely no point to that forum. None. Letting around 120 people from a fan base in the thousands, and interested parties in the tens of thousands, know a few 'secrets' was pointless and a slap in the face for those deemed not important enough to know what was said. Who the hell thought that was a good idea and what did they hope it would achieve?
It doesn't even matter what was said or if it was truth or lies. It's a complete irrelevance.
The club is a shambles. They can't even get something as simple as this right. Look at the bad feeling they've caused with what, handled correctly, should have been a positive, bridge building exercise.
As a season ticket holder for over 30 years I've never felt more distanced from the club.'"
You’ve really summed it up.
I can see the rational for not broadcasting it at the time but 2 days on and it’s as if it didn’t happen. Favvas a meeting of MI5!
2 days on and all they’ve caused is a huge rift between the fan base. Whether those who didn’t make it on the night are right or wrong to be up in arms, the clubs method has caused arguments and from my view a pretty big split in the fan base.
Even bringing up the likes of the Edwards rubbish has caused much of the 20 odd pages of drivel on here. It’s all fuelled by Tuesday night.
Not good. What a shambles. |
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I must admit I didn’t understand why being up old news of Edwards again,I think everyone has tried to forget about it and they bring it back up I do find that odd.
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I really just don’t understand this. Jukes, I don’t doubt any of what you say and if I knew what you do I’d probably agree.
I’ve been following this club since I was 2 months old & taken to CP in a big silver link pram. I’ve seen plenty of ups and downs but always been supportive and in many cases defended the club. I never at any point would have thought I’d be questioning whether I should continue that support.
It has nothing to do with on field performances, off field issues, recruitment etc.
This whole charade has left me completely disillusioned and to a certain extent angry with the club. If they want to explain things then explain them to us all, if not then don’t. I know it’s been said there are reasons they won’t release the details, assuming they are valid then why hold the forum in the first place. All they have achieved is appeasing 120 people and alienating thousands.
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| Quote ="Egg Chasing"Well he must have been able to train to full fitness at Souths because they kept picking him.'"
So did we mate. He was still crocked. |
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https://twitter.com/nrlphysio/status/10 ... 3608198144
George Burgess is playing with what he describes as an “arthritic hip” & has had bilateral hip & groin surgery in the past. But Burgess credits an alteration to his training type/frequency for the improvement in his hip function. Will have to be managed for the rest of his career
7:40 AM · Sep 19, 2018
We signed him 10 months after this.
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https://twitter.com/nrlphysio/status/10 ... 3608198144
George Burgess is playing with what he describes as an “arthritic hip” & has had bilateral hip & groin surgery in the past. But Burgess credits an alteration to his training type/frequency for the improvement in his hip function. Will have to be managed for the rest of his career
7:40 AM · Sep 19, 2018
We signed him 10 months after this.
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| Quote ="Wigg'n"https://twitter.com/nrlphysio/status/1042302293608198144
George Burgess is playing with what he describes as an “arthritic hip” & has had bilateral hip & groin surgery in the past. But Burgess credits an alteration to his training type/frequency for the improvement in his hip function. Will have to be managed for the rest of his career
7:40 AM · Sep 19, 2018
We signed him 10 months after this.'"
In his latest surgery he was operated on by a surgeon who operated on a South African RU player who had the same (if not mildly different) hip injury who then went on to continue representing SARU. It’s little surprise to me to see him back playing but one does wonder with regards to the above how and why the club are playing a naivety card on the matter. |
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| Quote ="Wigg'n"an alteration to his training type/frequency for the improvement in his hip function. Will have to be managed for the rest of his career'" |
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| Quote ="Grimmy"Conditions on the ground change. It's hardly a shock move to extend a coach who finished top of the league and took us very close to winning the GF. I want him sacked now but that doesn't mean it was wrong to give him the contract at the time.'"
Have you forgotten how 2019 ended? Lost both playoff games 40-10 to Saints and Lam was coached off the park in the home loss to Salford which was something like 8-24. In any case they only employed him originally for one season as a caretaker. As soon the Edwards thing blew up in their faces they should have been looking to see if there were better candidates, not taking the easy and in my opinion lazy option of just extending Lam’s deal.
That seeming laziness extends to contracts for players like extending Clubbs deal at his age and level of performance and not looking to improve when players contracts are up by checking out if better players are available rather than automatically (it seems) taking the easy option of extending contracts. It’s not just about who signs on the dotted line being IL and Rads but whether or not there is any ambition to improve. We have had two versions of who decides who is signed, that from Suzy B’s contact and the other from Jukesays but if we go with the latter it’s as if Rads and IL are the last in the chain of decision makers just signing the contract but I am none the wiser as to how or it the club decides it’s time for a new player in a certain position because we need a better player.
Perhaps if they hadn’t had the information blackout I’d have a better idea on that but as it is we have different takes on it which doesn’t help. |
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Quote ="Trainman"I really just don’t understand this. Jukes, I don’t doubt any of what you say and if I knew what you do I’d probably agree.
I’ve been following this club since I was 2 months old & taken to CP in a big silver link pram. I’ve seen plenty of ups and downs but always been supportive and in many cases defended the club. I never at any point would have thought I’d be questioning whether I should continue that support.
It has nothing to do with on field performances, off field issues, recruitment etc.
This whole charade has left me completely disillusioned and to a certain extent angry with the club. If they want to explain things then explain them to us all, if not then don’t. I know it’s been said there are reasons they won’t release the details, assuming they are valid then why hold the forum in the first place. All they have achieved is appeasing 120 people and alienating thousands.'"
Which bit of it do you not understand?
If its the bit about not streaming it I've said a dozen times I'm 50/50
I can honestly see why people may question it, but I can see, given negotiations/issues the club are currently involved with and have been involved in with a number of other parties they may not want to risk being caught on the hop.
I get the argument that they could have done a forum "light" and live streamed it, but I'm sure lots of people, pro abamy the same who are up in arms now would probably call it rubbish and they didn't tell us any detail etc.
If they edit it and put it out delayed im sure there will ne complaints about that.
Now I expected people having a whinge, but people saying that's them done with the club, being appalled etc somenofnthe language used about thise that went, I could go on.
I've spoke to 4/5 mates who couldn't go in last 2 days, none of them Have moaned about not going. Maybe thats not a fair sample, who knows? Maybe 99% of people.are outraged?
I suspect the outraged may be the most vocal 10%, but I could be wrong
I can honestly say, if I hadn't have gone, or it clashed and I couldnt go I genuinely wouldn't have given it more than 2 seconds thought.
Picked up a few snippets here amd there, spoke to people who may have gone etc.
But maybe I'm in the minority, I'm not one of those that thinks I need to know everything
I don't get outraged about stuff and feel I have to comment on most stuff (ill clarify that, I mean I'm not one-off those on twitter, Facebook commenting or having opinions on stuff all the time).
What typing someone put this in out WhatsApp group
https://www.wigantoday.net/sport/rugby- ... es-3369420
I think to myself what makes people do that?
I don't like Lam as a coach, but I do wonder if people actually think before they say things, do things etx. And the gods honest truth is i don't think so
As I said the other day, I thought that people may be understanding more of the issues,problems etc that people have gone through and show a bit of u derstanding
But it seems like some people are even more enraged about the tiniest thig etc and perceived wrongdoings theyve "suffered" than they ever were.
It'll its about any particular topic you'd have to be more specific. |
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Quote ="Trainman"I really just don’t understand this. Jukes, I don’t doubt any of what you say and if I knew what you do I’d probably agree.
I’ve been following this club since I was 2 months old & taken to CP in a big silver link pram. I’ve seen plenty of ups and downs but always been supportive and in many cases defended the club. I never at any point would have thought I’d be questioning whether I should continue that support.
It has nothing to do with on field performances, off field issues, recruitment etc.
This whole charade has left me completely disillusioned and to a certain extent angry with the club. If they want to explain things then explain them to us all, if not then don’t. I know it’s been said there are reasons they won’t release the details, assuming they are valid then why hold the forum in the first place. All they have achieved is appeasing 120 people and alienating thousands.'"
Which bit of it do you not understand?
If its the bit about not streaming it I've said a dozen times I'm 50/50
I can honestly see why people may question it, but I can see, given negotiations/issues the club are currently involved with and have been involved in with a number of other parties they may not want to risk being caught on the hop.
I get the argument that they could have done a forum "light" and live streamed it, but I'm sure lots of people, pro abamy the same who are up in arms now would probably call it rubbish and they didn't tell us any detail etc.
If they edit it and put it out delayed im sure there will ne complaints about that.
Now I expected people having a whinge, but people saying that's them done with the club, being appalled etc somenofnthe language used about thise that went, I could go on.
I've spoke to 4/5 mates who couldn't go in last 2 days, none of them Have moaned about not going. Maybe thats not a fair sample, who knows? Maybe 99% of people.are outraged?
I suspect the outraged may be the most vocal 10%, but I could be wrong
I can honestly say, if I hadn't have gone, or it clashed and I couldnt go I genuinely wouldn't have given it more than 2 seconds thought.
Picked up a few snippets here amd there, spoke to people who may have gone etc.
But maybe I'm in the minority, I'm not one of those that thinks I need to know everything
I don't get outraged about stuff and feel I have to comment on most stuff (ill clarify that, I mean I'm not one-off those on twitter, Facebook commenting or having opinions on stuff all the time).
What typing someone put this in out WhatsApp group
https://www.wigantoday.net/sport/rugby- ... es-3369420
I think to myself what makes people do that?
I don't like Lam as a coach, but I do wonder if people actually think before they say things, do things etx. And the gods honest truth is i don't think so
As I said the other day, I thought that people may be understanding more of the issues,problems etc that people have gone through and show a bit of u derstanding
But it seems like some people are even more enraged about the tiniest thig etc and perceived wrongdoings theyve "suffered" than they ever were.
It'll its about any particular topic you'd have to be more specific. | |
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This absolute bore fest makes me laugh. Relative success, half decent entertainment, and a few trophies and nobody gives a monkeys. We struggle a bit, have a couple of off seasons, IMO some problems that are fairly easily fixed to have us up there again, and the fan base is in absolute uproar about poor communication & being kept in the dark, when in reality it’s no better or worse than it has been for years.
We’re up there competing and most don’t bat an eyelid, we’re struggling (by our own high standards) and the masses are frothing at the mouth because we don’t know every minor detail about what’s going on behind the scene to make us “Wigan” again.
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Quote ="Jukesays"Which bit of it do you not understand?
If its the bit about not streaming it I've said a dozen times I'm 50/50
I can honestly see why people may question it, but I can see, given negotiations/issues the club are currently involved with and have been involved in with a number of other parties they may not want to risk being caught on the hop.
I get the argument that they could have done a forum "light" and live streamed it, but I'm sure lots of people, pro abamy the same who are up in arms now would probably call it rubbish and they didn't tell us any detail etc.
If they edit it and put it out delayed im sure there will ne complaints about that.
Now I expected people having a whinge, but people saying that's them done with the club, being appalled etc somenofnthe language used about thise that went, I could go on.
I've spoke to 4/5 mates who couldn't go in last 2 days, none of them Have moaned about not going. Maybe thats not a fair sample, who knows? Maybe 99% of people.are outraged?
I suspect the outraged may be the most vocal 10%, but I could be wrong
I can honestly say, if I hadn't have gone, or it clashed and I couldnt go I genuinely wouldn't have given it more than 2 seconds thought.
Picked up a few snippets here amd there, spoke to people who may have gone etc.
But maybe I'm in the minority, I'm not one of those that thinks I need to know everything
I don't get outraged about stuff and feel I have to comment on most stuff (ill clarify that, I mean I'm not one-off those on twitter, Facebook commenting or having opinions on stuff all the time).
What typing someone put this in out WhatsApp group
https://www.wigantoday.net/sport/rugby- ... es-3369420
I think to myself what makes people do that?
I don't like Lam as a coach, but I do wonder if people actually think before they say things, do things etx. And the gods honest truth is i don't think so
As I said the other day, I thought that people may be understanding more of the issues,problems etc that people have gone through and show a bit of u derstanding
But it seems like some people are even more enraged about the tiniest thig etc and perceived wrongdoings theyve "suffered" than they ever were.
It'll its about any particular topic you'd have to be more specific.'"
Putting aside the should they/shouldn't they have done the forum debate. I'm just left asking myself, what did the club get from it? What benefit have they made from holding the forum? |
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Quote ="Jukesays"Which bit of it do you not understand?
If its the bit about not streaming it I've said a dozen times I'm 50/50
I can honestly see why people may question it, but I can see, given negotiations/issues the club are currently involved with and have been involved in with a number of other parties they may not want to risk being caught on the hop.
I get the argument that they could have done a forum "light" and live streamed it, but I'm sure lots of people, pro abamy the same who are up in arms now would probably call it rubbish and they didn't tell us any detail etc.
If they edit it and put it out delayed im sure there will ne complaints about that.
Now I expected people having a whinge, but people saying that's them done with the club, being appalled etc somenofnthe language used about thise that went, I could go on.
I've spoke to 4/5 mates who couldn't go in last 2 days, none of them Have moaned about not going. Maybe thats not a fair sample, who knows? Maybe 99% of people.are outraged?
I suspect the outraged may be the most vocal 10%, but I could be wrong
I can honestly say, if I hadn't have gone, or it clashed and I couldnt go I genuinely wouldn't have given it more than 2 seconds thought.
Picked up a few snippets here amd there, spoke to people who may have gone etc.
But maybe I'm in the minority, I'm not one of those that thinks I need to know everything
I don't get outraged about stuff and feel I have to comment on most stuff (ill clarify that, I mean I'm not one-off those on twitter, Facebook commenting or having opinions on stuff all the time).
What typing someone put this in out WhatsApp group
https://www.wigantoday.net/sport/rugby- ... es-3369420
I think to myself what makes people do that?
I don't like Lam as a coach, but I do wonder if people actually think before they say things, do things etx. And the gods honest truth is i don't think so
As I said the other day, I thought that people may be understanding more of the issues,problems etc that people have gone through and show a bit of u derstanding
But it seems like some people are even more enraged about the tiniest thig etc and perceived wrongdoings theyve "suffered" than they ever were.
It'll its about any particular topic you'd have to be more specific.'"
Putting aside the should they/shouldn't they have done the forum debate. I'm just left asking myself, what did the club get from it? What benefit have they made from holding the forum? | |
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| Quote ="Akinwale Arobieke"Can't believe nobody piped up when asked if anybody had an issue with the policy of promoting youth. There's a difference between promoting it and the complete over reliance we've got on it now, especially in the pack. Half that pack is not Super League standard and I doubt ever will be. Paul Sculthorpe hit the nail on the head last week when he said too many in our pack don't look Super League ready. The reason the gap between Saints and us is getting wider is because they know how to bring their youth through. Gradually and with the support of seasoned pros all around them. There's method in the Saints approach. And fair play to them, they're reaping the rewards.'"
Me either though I think it was unfair to expect the fans to answer the question. Saying they disagreed could make it sound as if they were being disloyal and they presumably wouldn’t want to do that. They weren’t there to answer questions so that sounds a rather cynical move by Rads to deflect from an obvious issue by putting fans on the spot.
It doesn’t matter how well the youth system has worked in the past, we have ended up with a pack far too reliant on youth. The fact we have isn’t a poor reflection on the youth system anyway. It’s a poor reflection on the squad management. If Clubb and Clarke aren’t the right players to spell the kids with that isn’t their fault but the clubs for having those two as the senior props. |
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| Quote ="DaveO"Have you forgotten how 2019 ended? Lost both playoff games 40-10 to Saints and Lam was coached off the park in the home loss to Salford which was something like 8-24. In any case they only employed him originally for one season as a caretaker. As soon the Edwards thing blew up in their faces they should have been looking to see if there were better candidates, not taking the easy and in my opinion lazy option of just extending Lam’s deal.
That seeming laziness extends to contracts for players like extending Clubbs deal at his age and level of performance and not looking to improve when players contracts are up by checking out if better players are available rather than automatically (it seems) taking the easy option of extending contracts. It’s not just about who signs on the dotted line being IL and Rads but whether or not there is any ambition to improve. We have had two versions of who decides who is signed, that from Suzy B’s contact and the other from Jukesays but if we go with the latter it’s as if Rads and IL are the last in the chain of decision makers just signing the contract but I am none the wiser as to how or it the club decides it’s time for a new player in a certain position because we need a better player.
Perhaps if they hadn’t had the information blackout I’d have a better idea on that but as it is we have different takes on it which doesn’t help.'"
I agree with most of that and april/may 2019 id have been looking for the "Right man" as 3 games in I wasn't happy about Lams appointment (if I'm honest I wasn't happy with him holding the reigns for 1 years but I'd convinced myself I could out up with a year). The decision to extend his contract was really poor imo
I've said for 2 years now that we've Played well no more than a dozen times in 80 plus games
I don't think I need to say anymore about the Tony Clubb decision, cost me about anextra 30euros of beer and a massive hangover rwhen in Barcelona after id head theyd announced it.
As for who makes the signings
If I gave the impression they were just the last in the line signing the deal off then I apologise
What I will say is that they definitely did not say they pick the players and are totally in charge.
It was a statement of "The buck stops with us", but they talked about when the club had identified the need to look for players in specific positions, or coaches/scouts had identified potential talent there were was opportunity for all parties to have their say, he even gave an example of one were Lam had really wanted a particular player, pushed it and the deal was signed off by Rads/IL and another scenario where he talked about Matty Peet doing the background work and identifying players and how that is then filtered through the club with input from every department but as they said "The buck stops here". And ultimately as the finances and contracts have to be done by director of rugby/owner then it has to be that way.
They never said they choose, pick, decide etc. |
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