Jonh, as I said I will not be dragged in to anything. My point remains. It is my opinion and I think Long is the better option.

You seem to think Orford.

I have pointed out what I would do with Wigan.

if you dont agree with 'last son of wigan' then you are wrong. or so it appears

I have never said that. In fact the opposite. I have said I have one option and Jonh has another.

I agree but i find it interesting that people are bigging up S. Long who is clearly a spent force and is deteriorating by every season, yet slate the form of Matt Orford who is the current Dally M medal winner as the outstanding player in the NRL last year (Smith would have got it i appreciate but he did not and still is it such a bad thing to be the second best player in the comp behind him). Winning the Dally M and playing in a title winning side has not been done by anyone in 2 decades at least as far as i know with Sterling (?) Hardly the form of a "patchy" player.

He captained his team to the NRL title racking up one of the biggest if not the biggest win in NRL final history, hardly the signs of someone without the leadership skills we need.

I am open to the idea of Sean Long, but to use some of the arguments you use in my opinion do not make much sence.

Considering you watch all the NRl games do they not show the ones where it rains on your t.v?

This is my point Jonh, I've seen how you post and how it gets petty. I will no longer continue in this discussion.

Just ignore the facts then that i have posted.

All i am highlighting is the fact you are hellbent on S.Long and are so blinkered you chose to post things claiming the current Dally M winner and captain of the NRL champions has had patchy form over the last 2 years. You highlight the fact Orford has said he hopes to remain at Manly yet ignore the fact Long has said on many occasions he hopes to finish his career at Saints also claiming the NRL do not play in the rain etc etc etc, the only valid reason i have seen thus far is that Orford has no SL experience. I have responded to that by suggesting the overseas players that do come over that stuggle are generally not the 7's infact they tend to do well its the other positions where big name NRL players struggle.

If you call highlighting the flaws in your argument petty fair enough, and whilst we clearly disagree I would suggest you take a closer look and open your mind a bit more to someone other than S.Long as your reaons as highlighted do seem very flawed indeed when faced with the facts.

I am not even super pro Orford, i would like a younger quality option like Anasta, you on the other hand seem totally focused on Long, am starting to think you may be his agent

Stop trying to provoke an argument. In the above box I've highlighted how petty you have become.

or Bernard?

So let me get this straight.

You pick at the things I've said, you try and provoke an argument, you speak of how I must be Sean Long's agent simply because in my opinion I feel he is the best option for Wigan.

Yet on the same note you completely bang on about Orford far worst than I have ever about Sean Long.
What is your problem pal? Don't like it when someone doesn't agree with you? Or is it that you just like to argue?

You admitted to only seeing Orford play a couple of times but yet quoting facts on him makes you an expert of all things Orford.

FACE FACTS PAL, OTHER PEOPLE IN HERE WILL HAVE A DIFFERENT OPTION TO THAT OF YOURS. DON'T DARE GIVE ME SH!T FOR HAVING A DIFFERENT OPTION.

I am not trying to provoke an argument i am backing up my stance with facts. I suggest you stop trying to act like the victim, and when faced with reasoned fact based debate try to counter, rather than throwing the toys out of the pram and saying i am going to not respond or playing the victim.

You clearly have ignored the facts.

You do seem hellbent on Long so much so you will ignore the reasoned counter arguments backed up by facts because it does not support your stance which to me is pretty much the defenition of blinkered.

You did say he would not be used to playing in the rain!!

I knew this would happen as soon as you posted, I've seen how you try to argue with people hence why I told you I wouldn't get involved but you pressingly push the issue way after the other person (myself had said he wants nothing to do with it)

I said my opinion then you said yours. No opinion is right, ITS AN OPINION

So you have seen every match he has been in over the last two years?

With the internet, one does not Setanta to watch the NRL.

I am not giving you poop for having a different opinion, seriously you need to calm down. I am happy to face facts that people have other opinions its what makes this board interesting, it seems though you will not deal with the facts i have highlighted that back up why i think Orford it a better option.

I do not think i ever said i have seen Orford play a couple of times either?!

I am leaving it at that, unless you can post a valid response to the debate we were having rather than acting like a petulant child, if you are able to take the debate forward i look forward to continuing it with you.

You'll find Last Son Of wigan actually stated Orford is in a team with superstars. At Wigan Orford is not going to have this. That was his point.

No i have not seen every game just those on Setanta and the highlights and yes i am aware that you can watch the games on the Internet but sadly i do like to leave the house sometimes and spend time with my family.

The way i see it from the games i have seen and the fact he is the current Dally M which pretty much rewards consistent form its a bit rich to call his form patchy over the last 2 years.

Neither is Sean Long.

Lets look at the fact then of both players. (REGARDLESS ITS MY OPINION AND BY NO MEANS SHOULD I HAVE TO JUSTIFY THEM TO YOU)

Orford-SL experience none. Not used to the weather conditions, not just rain you pedantic , Is this a fact, yes, how many Aussies have you seen come over here and not turn up until the sun comes out? Lots.

Does he even want to come to the UK? Never ever stated that he did.

You bang on about Orfords stats but what about Longs

20 rep caps
won 3 Lance Todd trophies
Scored over 2000 career points

Played all his games in SL. Experienced and local.
Won't feel the need to go back home, cos he's local unlike a potential Orford.

When have I ever said I'm hellbent on Long when I also said sign Myler as the long term future 7 of our club?

How many times have you seen Orford play this season? Do you know where Manly are in the Aussie league?

You come out with comments like this then call me a child? Are you having a go or trying to put us down because we have seen Orford play more than you?

Oh no Boris! How can you possibly watch more games than Jonh! You need to put down for watching more of Matt Orford than Jonh! How dare you!

You can spend time with your family and watch the NRL. They are not mutually exclusive of one another. Very odd comment.



But Last Son of Wigan has seen him play more than you. Ergo your opinion vis-a-vis the NRL is somewhat less relevant.

What has sean Long to do with his comments about Orford?

You'll find his points for Sean Long are based on his extensive experience of Super League over Orford's.

The other big point in Sean Long's favour is the money he is going to demand. A player such as Orford or Lockyer will be taking a significant part of the salary cap. Long would be on a lot less money leaving space to get some much needed props in.

Once again look back over the Setanta listings count them up and you will have a figure.

I do not have time to sit and watch more rugby than i already do, my lifestyle will not allow for it, and in truth nor would i want to.

So if a 7 year old (not that i am suggesting you are Last Son) watches every game of the NRL his opinion suddenly becomes more valid than Wayne Bennetts (not that i am suggesting i am!!). Its simply not that simple.

All i am saying is it is questionable how 2 experts and avid watchers of every NRL game can call the Dally M winners form patchy? It does make me wonder just how closely you watch the games or exactly what you look for from a player.

This is painful. The bloke has never stated you have no right to an opinion. He is simply having a discussion, which isn't all that strange on a discussion forum.

You're the one who starting spitting the dummy out for someone having a different view, get over yourself.

In my opinion, Long for a number of reasons would be a poor option for Wigan. Orford is not the absolutely ideal solution but for me is the best option available to us at this point.