If he can maintain the standards of recent games then he is a very useful player to have around - covering so many positions is undoubtedly handy, perhaps a good player to have on the bench to cover any position in the backline. For me the way he runs into the line and supports well he could be worth a try at 6.

The only real concerns for me are his injury record - hopefully this is just a temporary thing and not an indication of an injury prone nature and the quota issue - maybe he is worth a qutoa spot but as the number of quota players is reduced then things may look very different.

The pluses in his favour are the enthusiasm and effort he puts in.

Phelps is the kind of utility back that noble was after when we signed withers. Due to injuries the withers signing never really worked but you can't underestimate the value of having a player that can cover so many positions to a pretty good standard. The only thing going against him is his overseas status imo and whilst this isn't a problem at the moment it could become one in the future. Personally i am quite happy with having phelps around for his usefulness to the team and the enthusiasm he shows when playing.

I think Phelps at the minute is worth his weight in gold. He pays FB to a good standard but for me still shows that it is not his specialist position. He does well in three quarters and can cover hooker and stand off. As stated above, sam panapa like. I'd keep him on providing he can keep his form.

Was going to start a topic about Phelps earlier. His form since the Saints game has been excellent, he missed the Easter monday game, but half the 17 did also.

One thing about that is clear about Phelps is that he loves playing for Wigan, and as long as his form continues he is most definately a player to have around the club.

I was concerned when we picked him at centre yesterday but he played very well and didnt look out of place at all. Took his tries very well.

As he is a quota player and as far as the "club trained" rules go is classed as an overseas player, I am pretty sure that would have been why he was only given a contract to the end of this season as those rules were stricter when he signed his deal than they are now. Even with the rules relaxed a bit it is still odds on he will leave IMO.

Our quota players are Roberts, Bailey, Riddell, Smith and Phelps and in 2010 squads can have no more than [usix[/uplayers who are not classed as club trained or federation trained i.e. who are overseas players.

Players who are currently on the books who fall into that overseas player category are Roberts, Riddell, Smith, Phelps and Carmont and also Feka (I think) - six players.

Bailey and Richards get federation trained status due to one of the compromises. I am not sure if Feka does or not (depends when he joined) and TL is also classed as federation trained.

What this means given who's contracts are up at the end of the season is one or all of Smith, Carmont or Phelps must leave if we want to sign overseas player(s) and if we sign an Aussie or two (i.e, non Kolpak players) it must be Smith and/or Phelps as they are quota and Carmont is not.

Dave

I can understand the point about him being versatile but i do not think the way the squad is shaping up that this is essential really.

The key to his retention is his ability as a specialist 1 or 6 for me. We have 3/4 wingmen 3/4 centres and 2/3 hookers.

Agreed.

We are only allowed 6 overseas players next year. This year you are allowed 8.

Our current 8 are:

Cameron Phelps (Quota)
Tim Smith (Quota)
Mark Riddell (Quota)
Amos Roberts (Quota)
Phil Bailey (quota)
(Five quota players)
Feka Paleaasina (Samoa)
Pat Richards (Ireland)
George Carmont (Samoa)

Leuluai and Hansen count as UK trained players and don't count on the overseas quota.

For next season we currently have:

Pat Richards
Feka Paleaasina
Amos Roberts
Mark Riddell

with Tim Smith, Phil Bailey, George Carmont and Cameron Phelps coming off contract. I am assuming we want to sign George Carmont up so that would leave us with:

Pat Richards
Feka
Amos Roberts
Mark Riddell
George Carmont

with one space left. If we were to sign up Cameron Phelps then we would have no quota spaces left to sign up a prop forward or halfback from Australia.

For me with Richards, Roberts, Ainscough, Carmont, Gleeson, Goulding, Pryce we have enough cover.

This would leave one quota spot for a prop forward or halfback. But one will have to be English unless we decide for some reason not to extend Carmont's contract.

I think all that is correct.

does anyone actually think smith will stay beyond this season? when we signed him it was rumoured that it was only going to be a short term signing but I am unsure, if smith keeps the form up of the last two weeks will we want to release him? he has definately shown his class in the last couple of weeks.

And is Carmont included on the overseas? May sound a bit stupid but didnt we have to de register carmont to sign roberts who would of taken us over the overseas quota if george didnt get his samoan passport?

Not quite.

It depends whether the status of Richards, Bailey and Feka changed from "overseas player" to "federation trained" due to them being here before the new rules were introduced in 2008. That concession came in after the one that got TL off the overseas player list, they just have to apply for it I believe.

So our [uoverseas players[/u for 2010 potentially will be

Amos Roberts (also a quota player)
Mark Riddell (also a quota player)
George Carmont (non-quota)

So that is three out six overseas slots used up and two quota slots used up.

The [uquota[/u players are potentially

Bailey (but federation trained, so not one of the six overseas players)
Phelps (also one of the six overseas player if signed)
Smith (also one of the six overseas players if signed)

So that would use up all five quota slots were they to re-sign and two more of the overseas player slots meaning we are now at five quota and five overseas players.

The [unon-quota and non overseas[/u players are:

Feka (Samoan and qualifies as federation trained)
Richards (Irish and qualifies as federation trained).

So if we re-signed all our current "foreign" players who are off contract (Bailey, Phelps, Smith and Carmont) we could still sign one more overseas player but he would have to be a non-quota player.

If Phelps leaves then we could sign two more overseas players but only one can be an Aussie (quota) player.

If Bailey and Phelps leave we could still only sign two overseas players (because Bailey is not classed as an overseas player) but both could be Aussies (because Bailey frees up a quota spot despite not being classed an overseas player!).

If Bailey, Smith and Phelps leave it is three overseas players, all three of which could be Aussies.

And if all four out of contract players leave then we could sign four overseas players three quota and one not.

I think that is correct.

Dave

Say again!

are DaveO and Cadoo having a longest post marathon?

I know who my Monies on!

After reading many a time posts on here saying phelps is out of contract at the end of the season www.wiganwarriors.com/SquadMembe ... d=1&id=284 Cameron joined the Warriors mid-way through last season, initially until the end of the year but after impressing he earned himself a further three year contract until 2011. when did he sign a 3 year deal?

After reading many a time posts on here saying phelps is out of contract at the end of the season www.wiganwarriors.com/SquadMembe ... d=1&id=284 Cameron joined the Warriors mid-way through last season, initially until the end of the year but after impressing he earned himself a further three year contract until 2011. when did he sign a 3 year deal?

I think thats right. For me i'd let Bailey and Smith go. Allowing us one quota and one overseas player. I'd let an academy player come into the fray to replace the space Bailey left. Concentrate on getting a classy quota player. How about a good french man for prop and spend the quota on a crackin oz halfback??

But the rules only apply to players who were signed before 2007 (when the new laws were introduced) whose contracts have been renewed/extended.

Only Pat Richards, Feka Paleaasina and Phil Bailey were signed before the new laws were made.

Pat Richards is the only one to have an extension after the new rules were introduced so currently will count on neither.

Phil Bailey will still count on the overseas quota even though he was signed prior to 2007 as his contract was agreed before the new rules were made. Only when he comes off contract (this year) could he count as a non federation player.

Feka Paleaasina still counts as an overseas trained player because he was signed before the rules were implimented and is still on that contract. Once that contract ends and should we re-sign him , he will also not count on any quota.

Hope that made sense.

What a load of crap, this sport is a joke sometimes.

Why cant it just be simple? If your born overseas and lived there for the majority of your life started your career there etc...ala Roberts, Carmont, Richards, Smith, Leuluai, Riddell, Feka, Bailey, Phelps then your on the Quota, simple as.

Its the only realy way we are going to cut down on the imports and improve our international game, otherwise clubs are always gonna be finding these ridiculous loopholes.

Agreed.



And for 2010 which is what I thought we were on about, if we gave Bailey an extension he would qualify as Federation trained.



Which is effectively what I said in my previous post. Bailey would free up a quota spot if he left but if he was given a new deal he would not count as an overseas player.



Feka is the interesting one for 2010 then. If he counts next season as an overseas player like Carmont does, then you can deduct one less overseas player slot available from my previous post.

So it becomes:

If we re-signed all our current "foreign" players who are off contract (Bailey, Phelps, Smith and Carmont) we can't sign any overseas players because we would have six overseas players ans they would be:

Roberts, Riddell, Feka, Phelps, Smith and Carmont.

We could re-sign Bailey and he would not count as an overseas player as he would count as Federation trained.

If Phelps leaves then we could sign one more overseas player and he can be an Aussie (quota) player.

If Bailey and Phelps leave we could still only sign one overseas players to replace Phelps and he could be an Aussie.

If Bailey, Smith and Phelps leave it is two overseas players, both of which could be Aussies.

And if all four out of contract players leave then we could sign three overseas players two quota and one not.

Dave

Aye that is all correct.

I just edited it as I thought it wasn't !

Dave

Mossop, Ferriol, and Orford / Lockyer will do me fine

Meant Ferriol......Literally getting my 'F'ing French props mixed up

Ferriol would be a top signing

Get him and a top aussie half back to play with Sam. Tommy to Hooker, along with getting rid of the last bit of deadwood Mr Noble.

.........and next year I get the feeling the long awaited trophy wait could be over!!