I won’t quote any posters on both sides of the argument because I can understand to a degree both sides of the debate.

For my two pennies worth the date seemed quite rushed and they should have streamed it live on Wigan tv or at the very least they should have updated Twitter as they promised.

My single biggest concern is the long term viability of the club particularly with the new owners of the Latics, the financial issues caused by COVID-19 and the reduced value of the deal with Sky.
To a degree the standard of play pales into insignificance with the overall financial situation of the club.
From the brief chat that I had with my sons these areas were covered but my concerns haven’t been abated because other than a new Head of Marketing they didn’t tell me about any other plans to kickstart the club.

We need some new energy within the club and if IL and KR haven’t got the energy or desire they should step aside. If they need some respite after a very difficult 18 months then personally I’d been fine with that as long as improved communications commence form today because for the last 18 months there hasn’t really been any.

On the coaching front I’m caught between bringing back SW and total new start with potentially an unproven coach. What I don’t want is this siege mentality between the club/coaching staff and the fans that has existed off and on for about 7 years or so.

The lack of activity in schools, amatuer clubs and the still unresolved issue of declining numbers of young fans needs to addressed immediately. IL should be paying top dollars for the best Head of Marketing and I suspect that would mean a 6 figure package would be the minimum to attract the best available. I’d be interested to know who they are using to help them with this recruitment.

You're not asking for much, are you?

Obviously they'll step down at some point, but given that it's a job they're both pretty attached to, and have done very well until the Covid crisis threw everybody's cards into the air, I wouldn't hold your breath.

Double post

As I typed that I thought that it could be seen as a bit callous but my meaning is that IL could handover the reigns to his son(s) or sell the sell club and KR may decide to move on to pastures new because I suspect the last 18 months or so would have been mentally and physically exceptionally draining.

I don’t wish either of them any ill on the contrary, there is a massive job to be done in still very testing times and to keep picking yourself up can be soul destroying particularly if you don’t see things improving anytime soon.

What if there isn't a good buyer? Look what happened to Latics when Whelan just sold to whoever was willing to buy.

Jukesays, I explained that I copied a series of text messages I was sent from someone in attendance, nothing more. I also made the post to anger any prying eyes from the club about their clandestine meeting being leaked.

Having spoken to the person that sent the texts and others in attendance, I feel it's clear this was a face saving exercise where Bill and Ben have thrown everyone they can under the bus and by spinning bigger lies than we'd already been told.

It appears to have appeased the happy clappers with vague promises of moving in the right direction, while the more critical fans have been left even more bemused than before.

For example: Why did it take them 2 contact extensions to realise Lam was a clown? I knew for a fact that Burgess was crocked before he signed. I heard a very different version of events about Edwards that Bill and Ben unwittingly corroborated while getting lost in their ever-widening web of lies.

Conditions on the ground change. It's hardly a shock move to extend a coach who finished top of the league and took us very close to winning the GF. I want him sacked now but that doesn't mean it was wrong to give him the contract at the time.

Well it sounds like Danson won’t be a potential buyer and I’d be amazed if anyone else would buy us therefore, IL would have to pass on to his son(s)

So what is the point of Danson, then?

BTW thanks to Jukes and others for efforts over and beyond the cause in explaining all this, Like many, I'm far from convinced that not live-streaming was a good idea, although I can see arguments for the approach they took.

I know you're not one of the bad guys. I don't want to be adversarial about this either. We're all on the same side.

But it seems to me there was an awful lot of bile poured on here last night, the main cause of which was certain people's frustration that they hadn't got tickets to the forum. I wasn't there either, but from what I hear from those who were, it wasn't a disappointing event.

I've always believed that IL and KR are Wigan Warriors through and through. It's true that we've not seen any of the extravagant spending that Mo indulged in during his first tenure, or heard any of the types of ridiculous promises that Dave Whelan made. But Mo was operating without a salary cap and Whelan didn't fulfil those promises. In contrast, IL, supported by KR, has always been a realist and yet has also delivered lots of silverware. I know I'm telling folk something they're already aware of but I think we sometimes need reminding.

I'm not going to pretend, by the way, that all is hunky dory.

I've said on here myself that it feels as though there's a malaise at present. And some things have gone wrong that shouldn't have been allowed to. But I'd refute the argument that Wigan are a club in decline. That's the line being pushed by those in the media and on Twitter who want it to be so.

IL has pulled us back from the brink before. Within three years of our famous 'relegation' season we'd won the Grand Final (beating the last bunch of 'Supersaints', who Eddie and Stevo reckoned should have won because it would have been a fairy tale finish to KC's career ... yep, some things never change).

The thing I'm most concerned about, if I'm honest, is the situation with the stadium. I increasingly feel that it's too big for either us or Wigan Athletic, which means there will always be arguments about who gets priority, who pays for what etc. I don't know how long this latest Latics owner is going to last, but through sheer ignorance he seems to have reignited this whole feud again. So yes, these are troubling times.

But IL inherited that problem. It wasn't his doing.

If the guy's had enough and wants to go, that's different of course. But by the sounds of it, he still feels there's a job to do. So I'm still with him.

Do they want to run the club? Would they be better at it than the current regime, which has delivered a lot of success?

Interesting point (and something I've though about long and hard for various reasons)

There was a guy last night who just kept repeating "Sell the club"
Unfortunately, for a few who want this to happen, as I've expressed many times, Multi millionares with say 30/40/50million to spare to buy and then invest over the next 10 years arent falling off trees.

And more importantly, if IL wants to retain the club shouldn't we show a bit of loyalty?
I mean no trophy in 3 years is hardly the biggest disaster to befall this club and again more importantly hes doing something about it, all under the backdrop of him once again investing A LOT of his own money to keep us debt free.
As I've said, they ackowledged their mistakes, they explained why they have stances on certain things that certain people may not like, but I and many others I've spoke to understand why they do it.
Itchy touched on the strain of the last 20months, I'm pretty sure he's been told a lot of whats been said.
But, as part of my statement I Thanked IL, Rads and all the staff for their commitment and efforts over the last 20months in what must have been an absolutely tumultuous episode of events that will have taken its toll mentally, physically etc.
The response to that statement from myself was from what I could tell a unanimous round of applause, because the people in the room could tell the efforts that everyone has gone through to keep the club afloat etc and to be honest i get the feeling that IL and Rads have played prominent roles in trying to keep the game afloat and even leaders to assist and resolve the problems the game has had over this period.

They didn't come out last night and tell us the whole thing is a disaster, they didn't tell us we were going into administration, they didn't tell us we weren't spending pretty much up to cap etc.

They told us that relatively speaking weve got through this thing well, we will be investing in new players (again interestingly enough no one actually replied negatively when he asked about did the fans want to stop the youth conveyor belt and put more money into top signings and was it the right thing to do, I suspect because we all k ow its the right thing to do), they have a plan and want to be part of the future of the club for the foreseeable future. Surely we should be thankful or at least gracious enough to respect that security whilst I admit, always looking to improve and be open minded.

Once again I am sure there will be some criticism of my defence of them, but ask yourselves this, I and others may over defend them, but how much is in the face of others being over critical?

I get that everybody wants to know everything, and I'm not naive to think that those there last night were told any more than 10% of the reality of what goes on or maybe even a polished version of things.
But
I also accept that 80/90% of things we wont know or ever will know the full story.

My frustration boils purely from how the club backtracked without even such as a whimper. It smacked of hiding from proper scrutiny. That might not be the case and I’m not saying it is but that’s the impression I got.

I support IFL, always have and still do. I agree not everything has been right but which owner is perfect all the time? None. I’d rather IFL stay than the realisation of Ruddy’s fantasy and he go (I’m amazed Ruddy has such a vendetta to be honest but that’s a different debate).

From the sounds of it, it was worth it. There’s certainly been no tweets/posts saying it was a waste of time which in my mind is only a good thing. To be honest at the moment my main gripe is the lack of comms and why Lam is still here. The stadium is a medium - long term issue. Both us and Latics should have a sit down together and discuss moving forward (that may have already occurred for all we know). I think the stadium is a bit of a red herring. I also don’t think we’re a club in decline rather a club in transition still from the Wane era. We needed a good, strong coach to steer us through which we didn’t get and instead got a clueless one in Lam. If we had have appointed, for pure example and not saying we should have, a Craig Fitzgibbon/Jason Demetriou perhaps we wouldn’t even be having this conversation.

I’m sat here looking at our issues thinking they seem a lot, but they’re a relatively easy fix. Our squad needs a forward power injection - we’re getting it. We need a new winger - we’re getting one, we could do with a new HB - we’re in the market, we need a new coach - Lam is going and IL/KR need to improve fan communication which they say they will. All that gets fixed and bingo, we’re sat here in 12 months wondering why we were so worried.

I never said that what you put was lies or inaccurate, I just said that there was context around certain statements etc.

From the rest of the post I guess I'm just a happy clapper, and coincidentally every other person who I spoke to must be as well as they all thought it was a good event.

Its also nice to know that we know nothing and are just naive happy clappers and its only the angry ones who couldn't get a ticket that actually know "The real truth".

I'd also find it strange that your mate who seems to be very unhappy with pretty much everything bill and Ben said, didn't stand up and ask them thise hard questions? Tell the. They were telling lies etc. They had ample chance to do so?

Personally I’d love the IL from 2010/2011 but unfortunately time goes by.

I’m not sure of IL age but unless he has a particularly good constitution retirement cannot be delayed indefinitely. If he feels that he has the energy and desire to turn things around (and only he knows that and possibly his family) then I’m fine with that as long as communications and the standards of the club across the board are significantly improved.
I tend to find that most people who criticise IL are usually “fans” who don’t attend games and haven’t done for over 10 years or more. I’m not a “happy clapper” ( don’t really like that term but unsure as to what else to us) but IL has done infinitely more good than bad however, some the decisions in the last couple of years have been questionable and in some cases just downright wrong but hopefully, he can kick on and find some of his old vigour.

I agree with you in that my biggest single worry is the stadium but that is closely followed by general finances of the club however, even if those issues can be resolved we need a significant stepped change in attitude/communication/ professionalism/marketing and a bit stoicism wouldn’t go amiss.
As a club we seem to lost a bit of get up and go which is understandable but eminently fixable. We cannot afford to get it wrong for another year hence my “step aside” comment. I want us to be successful but just as importantly I want to enjoy my club again. The last 3 years have been nothingness apart from the very odd occasions at say Huddersfield and Saints last year.
We need someone to grab us by the collar and drag into a new successful and professional era. IL may have to loosen the reigns a bit with senior management in achieving this but I’m not sure if that’s his style.

A Wigan lad willing to help out in difficult Times.
I believe he doesn’t want to run a sports club.

I could be more cynical and think the longer we drift the cost of buying out the remaining 75% becomes increasingly less.

I haven’t got a clue what the correct answer is but in a perverse way the latter does have some semblance of a business plan if I were Danson albeit not very moral.

I'm going to draw a line under the first part of the response, I'm not talking about the use of the word elitism, Condescending, contemptuous, I was more concerned about the next words that to be honest I done want to repeat (not for fear of saying it, I've said worse in private etc, but I just don't think making last nights forum an analogy to a sex ring and the connotations behind it is a great thing to do).

However

The last 3 paragraphs pretty much nail my feelings.
They didn't whitewash everything and say they got everything right, a number of times they held their hands up, but they gave some explanation behind their thinking and decision making.
They didn't agree with everyone on the floor, but they explained their decisions and why they feel they're right on those subjects.
As I've said, I know people who are and were involved and know about numerous situations, whilst not telling us everything (how can you in a 2hr meeting were dozens and dozens of topics are discussed before you even get i to whether they should tell us) i can say that nothing they said contradicted what I've previously been told so IMO they didn't lie about thise things.

I'm only interested in moving forward

Finances - took a massive hit, worked hard to get through it and have plans in place to improve and get back on track to 2020 forecasts pre pandemic, and have a mitigating plans for various circumstances

Stadium - didn't work out the way they wanted, but are dealing with new owners to put ourselves on a mutually agreeable path.

Squad - and I keep repeating this, they asked did anyone think the way they promote youth etc is wrong, no one complained or said they didn't think it was the right way to go, they explained the situations with a number of players, its up to each individual to believe or not believe them.. certainly on the GW one I believe them, as I've been told previously how much wigan offered and what he went to Wire for. But ultimately the question was asked do we think the identification, nurturing and payment structure that allows us to bring youth, retain youth and guide them into the 1st team environment is the right one.

Coach - they explained their thought processes, they explained the options they could potentially take moving forward, they explained their rationale behind how these things are done and to me I heard nothing controversial in what they said, people may not agree, but its hardly controversial.

Ultimately my feeling was that were 10/20% off were we would like to be in a lot of areas, but with a backdrop of covid and the issues that has brought then a lot of this is understandable.

They gave confidence that coming out the other side they are in the right position to move forward, and whilst not saying there aren't questions and issues surrounding certain subjects it certainly would be fair that they had an optimistic but cautious view.

Yep, that’s fair enough. Post amended. Said in anger and frustration but in hindsight it was unacceptable.

Which bit?

Can't believe nobody piped up when asked if anybody had an issue with the policy of promoting youth. There's a difference between promoting it and the complete over reliance we've got on it now, especially in the pack. Half that pack is not Super League standard and I doubt ever will be. Paul Sculthorpe hit the nail on the head last week when he said too many in our pack don't look Super League ready. The reason the gap between Saints and us is getting wider is because they know how to bring their youth through. Gradually and with the support of seasoned pros all around them. There's method in the Saints approach. And fair play to them, they're reaping the rewards.

And why no goal kicker since Pat Richards left? Presumably another department Radlinski knows nowt about, along with forwards.

Our young forwards don’t have the luxury of playing with seasoned and other good forwards (with the obvious exceptions of Farrell and Bateman). Havard would be, and still is IMO, on course to be a top, top front rower if he had the likes of Walmsley, Knowles, Prior, Millington tutoring him and I doubt Byrne/Partington would even get a look in.

Smithies works hard, he’s a real grafter and you do need players like him in your team but a question mark remains over him for me over his effectiveness. He reminds me of Harrison Hansen; willing to do the tough stuff and dependable but just not there.

Shorrocks I like, he has something about him but I’ve said it before in that I just don’t know whether he has what it takes to be at a top level SL club.

KPP is a star in the making IMO an absolute must keep at all costs. I would possibly put Halsall in that bracket too.

Smith I’d like to see under a new (and competent) coach before calling for him to go. There is clear talent there but as I’ve repeatedly said he looks lost and completely devoid of any confidence which is clearly affecting his game. It’s like sending a lamb to the slaughter having him kick, why not Zak? That’s not going to help him.

The issue we have is as you’ve pointed out, our over reliance on the youngsters which has been down to poor senior player form, or injuries. Clubb and Clarke aren’t great role models for our young props, Bullock is a total waste of time and Singleton though I like him and out of our senior props I’d rate him the highest, blows hot and cold. He was outstanding v Cas but has been virtually anonymous in other games. If French/Field had been fit I doubt we’d have seen Smith half as much and now Field is fit again but clearly struggling for form.

The Saints approach is without doubt the best way to do it, but let’s be fair; they’ve not had anywhere near the injuries or loss of form of senior players we have. That’s a huge reason for this IMO.