Lower opposition ? oh dear you big boys don't like it up you

I'm not sure it will going off last night. Widnes got a red card and whilst we were heavily penalised in the second half, much of it was deserved so we can't start throwing 'harsh treatment' about as an excuse.

It's all a bit OTT about Wigan anyway IMO. Last night was petulance a lot of the time not foul play. The moaning from the Widnes crowd about the late hits on kickers got them a penalty in the end but in truth none of them looked like foul play to me. We got suckered in to a couple of handbag sessions but in the main it was aggressive and legal rugby league.

The players need to stop getting conned by the opposition though and wound up. It's an issue that even goes down to the u19's who in the GF last year did exactly what the first team did last night (blow a convincing lead and got sucked in to handbags).

We need to learn to walk away.

Matty Smith had two or three instances like that in back play last night. There was one early on when he'd been knocked down when kicking on the last (not late) and Smith tried to trip the defender up as he retreated by reaching/ taking a swipe for his ankle.
Don't know what his problem was last night.

This

Plus we dont know what was said to him to wind him up but im guessing it was nothing. and it was never a sending off offence.....

You didn't see Lockers purposely twist Chris Bridge's ankle when in the tackle v Wire in the GF semi play off then I presume!?

Don’t forget to clean your rosy coloured specs for tonight will you!

Didn't you see what Chris Bridge did earlier that game?

Some of the team started to look like hot heads and idiots at times last night.
Players like Smith, Clubb and Joel, the 26/27 somethings should show leadership, keep things calm and give direction. Shaun W needs to re-establish his leadership group.

Early days yet and seeing another of their team mates knocked unconcious couldn't have done their calming nerves much good. Thankfully Ah Van got sent off. I do hope this is a new standard for the refs. It will be interesting to see how the Match Review Panel sees the incident.

The whole squad needs to look at the review and it will be awful viewing especially for the coaching staff. They simply have to do better than last night and by a very long way.
The only positive I can find is that we got one more League point from Widnes last night than we did last season. If we're looking for improvement, then that's one way I suppose!

Effectively though Smith was sent off for the remainder of the game and It'll get looked at by the review panel.

I don't like having a go at referees but Childs was hopeless last night.

I can go either way with the sending off, I don't THINK it was deliberate but he did hit Charnley around the head with I think a clenched fist. As I always say let the review committee decide. But the real poor decisions were Gelling tackling the Widnes player in the air no penalty given. The penalty given for pushing the Widnes player over the touchline when a) he's already in touch and b) Joel Tomkins is committed to the tackle, there was no second effort. Then O'Carroll runs 20 yards to attack a Wigan player and the referee doesn't caution him but speaks to Joe Mellor and gives Wigan the penalty. There are probably others I'll notice when I watch the game again but those three were from memory at the game.

An excellent summing up RG

Hanbury wasn't in his face. He was, understandably, celebrating Dean's try. The whole Wigan act is getting a bit old now really. Not saying Saints players are angels by any means, Wellens loves gobbing off at the referee, Travis Burns is probably the niggliest player in the league. The way Wigan play though isn't surprising when you've got players like Joel Tomkins, who couldn't deciede who to kick off with when Dean scored, coupled with the fact that Wane's lost the plot. It's rubbing off on the whole team, that kick out wasn't like Matty Smith and like people have said, Liam Farrell seems to have become braindead recently with his lying on in the tackle. It's been coached into the team and it's sad to see really.

Aggression is a great thing when channelled properly, but some players have it and some don't. O'Loughlin, Ellis, Westwood, Peacock etc. They have always played hard probably since they were 13 years old. But they do it the right way.

If you try to coach it into guys like Farrell, to whom it just doesn't come naturally, the result it what we are seeing now. Needless penalties and petulance.

It's clear that they have tried to coach aggression into Faz as if you remember a couple of seasons ago, Wane made a comment said that Faz was playing well but wasn't aggressive enough in the tackle. Now we see the results of him becoming more aggressive as more penalties are given away.

Quote ="Mr. Zucchini Head"Aggression is a great thing when channelled properly, but some players have it and some don't. O'Loughlin, Ellis, Westwood, Peacock etc. They have always played hard probably since they were 13 years old. But they do it the right way. If you try to coach it into guys like Farrell, to whom it just doesn't come naturally, the result it what we are seeing now. Needless penalties and petulance.'" Not disagreeing with you entirely but Farrell only gave away 1 penalty last night, and he should be fined for stupidity for doing it. www.superleague.co.uk/report/10950

Quote ="Mr. Zucchini Head"Aggression is a great thing when channelled properly, but some players have it and some don't. O'Loughlin, Ellis, Westwood, Peacock etc. They have always played hard probably since they were 13 years old. But they do it the right way. If you try to coach it into guys like Farrell, to whom it just doesn't come naturally, the result it what we are seeing now. Needless penalties and petulance.'" Not disagreeing with you entirely but Farrell only gave away 1 penalty last night, and he should be fined for stupidity for doing it. www.superleague.co.uk/report/10950

I never thought I would say this but I agree with all of that.

RG I agree under the laws of the game contact to the head should be Red card, however I think I'm right in thinking it says deliberate contact and as a few of the sky team pointed out last night that was not deliberate. Poor technique yes but not deliberate, yellow card and on report for me. But if it is contact to the head = red card how come when Logan Tomkins I think hit Mellor around the head in the 2nd half it was not a red nor a yellow? The way he swung his arm he was always going to hit the back of Mellors neck and then ride up onto his head, if Mellor was facing that swinging arm it would have hit him right across his throat and gone up into his face and the Sky team and everyone would have being going ballistic but apparently just because he had his back to it and it hit the back of his neck first it is deemed OK pen to Widnes? I bet if Ah Van's tackle is slowed right down his arm hits Charnley's shoulder a micro second before the hand or forearm hits his chin will that be taken into account as you read every week at the disciplinary 'hit shoulder, or arm or back before contact with head is made, sending off sufficient or 1 game etc.'.

Smiths kick out was deliberate and Tomkins running around looking for someone to hit was a joke, Smith should have been straight red and Tomkins possible red but defo a yellow but nothing. TJ then tells ref Smith has been berating him behind the sticks so he bins him for a bit of lip not assault?

But like you say there were more incidents that were so obvious that just was not picked up by the ref and his team it shocking. Sean O on the first tackle had the Widnes player around the throat and it was just ignored second half the ref defo did his best to even up the penalty count IMO some right some wrong. Unfortunately this is just something all teams will have to put up with as some of the refs have no idea what they are doing.

I will be amazed if Smith gets anything for the deliberate kick on Hanbury, provoked or not that is way out of line and like someone says if he did it earlier in the game then he should be punished even if just 1 match. I expect them to come out with picture doesn't really show enough to make a decision no case to answer, Tomkins will not even be cited. But Mellor probably will be even though it was O'Carroll who pushed (nothing in it) SO.

Great game for viewers to get the season underway, another easy one next week up at Headingly.

As a neutral I can't understand what has gotten into Matty Smith and Liam Farrell, they ought to get back to what they do best, skill moves not apprentice thugs.

Well the ref was a joke but for gods sake get real I was brought up to believe wigan were a team that played entertaining football , and that last night was a joke . Yes I am a Widnes fan , and proud to be one , but my old man taught me to appreciate quality on the field and he would have to admit that last night Wigan played like thugs rather than the quality ball players they once were and with a decent ref on the field who knows what could have happened .

Not a soft yellow in my book.
A ban of 1/2 games should come Smiths way.

And the same for Tomkins.
He pushed his own player our of the way in order to "tackle" the Widnes player who was celebrating their try.
Needless and idiotic.

Not quite right.
Hanbury celebrated and got in Smith's face (all fair enough. A bit of sledging is fine with me).
Smith kicks Hanbury who doesn't react and just mutters something and rightly walks off to celebrate with his team mates.
Joel, like a giddy school kid spoiling for a fight, is bouncing around towards Hanbury until he see's Phelps come jogging in to have a go at Smith for kicking out.
Tomkins then nails Phelps.
Result = Tomkins and Smith both act like petulant school children.
All a bit embarrassing from two senior players.

Smith taking a petty swipe at Hanbury is more dangerous/thuggish than Ah Van knocking out Charnley and giving him concussion?

Other than the scene at the end which I think everyone can agree was petulant and stupid from Smith/Tomkins, what are the other incident in which Wigan players acted as thugs?

Again, laughable. If tackling a player to the floor, pinning him down, but not throwing any punches is worth a red or even yellow in your book then you're watching the wrong game petal.

Smith should be banned for petulance/stupidity, but again, what he did wasn't dangerous in any way, just unsportsmanlike. The fact of whether or not it was a yellow or a red for Smith is irrelevant as there was less than ten mins to go and he will still receive the same ban from the panel regardless.

Hey JW I'm all for rough and ready rugby, hit on Brown by your player resulting in him having to leave the field not to return nothing wrong with it and few hits from your players on our kickers again most OK, but the odd 1/2 were late or avoidable IMO so not OK. Ah Van on JC high shot and not acceptable, certainly not deliberate again IMO, red card for me I will take but no ban or 1 game at most and told to improve technique. It's a tough sport and players get hit, all part and parcel. Ah Van should have been going under the arm / shoulder rather than over the top as that technique could lead to head shot as it did but all happened in live play with ball in motion / play.

However Tomkins attacks a player when the ball is dead and for absolutely no reason as all Phelps has done was go and have a word with Smith for kicking Hanbury, phelps was not pushing Smith nor did he have his hands raised. He runs from 20 metres away to get involved and we and others have had players in the bin for doing this and being the cause of the brawl / melee because they are seen as the cause of the problem. So Both Smiths and Tomkins decisions to do what they did where out of context with what was going on IMO and they should both know better and to walk away unpunished is wrong so both should be banned for 1 game at least.

Just because he hugs him and puts him on the deck doesn't mean it is OK and acceptable.

Ok, sorry for the tone of my original post. I agree with most of what you say here. I just don't think J. Tomkins should get a ban. Smith should get at least 2 games for being a moron.