What two clubs to you mean?

Chester pays it's first team players and Caldy have a wealthy backer but both clubs play at a low level in RU terms. The most successful RU club in Cheshire outside the top flight (i.e. Sale) is Macclesfield who are one division away from the RU equivalent of NL1.

It's not a very high standard. North Wales does not as far as I know have similar clubs.



Wrexham isn't that big a place and there is a big English/Welsh rivalry in the area with Chester City soccer club and Wrexham having stoked this up over the years. It's got to come from North Wales IMO.



South Wales is the place to be. Even the WRU see North Wales as a development area whereas down south the oval ball is the one considered to be of the right shape.



I admire your optimism but I don't see loads of Welsh talent flocking to the Crusaders and if they recruit established SL players from elsewhere with few Welsh players in the team then it's pointless. Down in South Wales I think they stood a far better chance of recruiting local players.

IMO the hope is that Neath do well and eventually earn a right to a SL place by winning a franchise and not because they were parachuted into SL prematurely as the Crusaders have been. I think we will end up with one Welsh RL team and it will be Neath in the not too distant future.



I thought the existing NL1 sides had been guaranteed one place in SL next time (which in itself seems stupid if no side meets the criteria....) and the other side was odds on to be a second French side.

Dave

The Crusaders finished 2nd in both comps (I think) and worked their way up from the bottom.

Surely the Neath side cannot do better than this. So I cannot see how it will work. Shame on Widnes really who have the financial backer, the crowd the stadium and the history.

Well it depends what you mean by working their way up from the bottom.

Given the Crusaders achieved what they did on the playing side then I don't think you need a clearer indication of what is happening to them now that playing success alone can't be used as a single promotion criteria to a league that requires the financial outlay of SL.

Neath will need to work their way up not only on the playing side but financially so the RFL don't make the same mistake again and stick them into SL.



Widnes previous financial backer left them high and dry the year before the franchise system came in I think. I am pretty sure Widnes were told that due to them effectively going bust and that because the RFL were unsure of their financial stability under their then new backer they could not be considered for promotion.

If I have remembered that correctly then that seems sensible to me but hindsight looks to be showing us that similar caution or scrutiny was not applied to the Crusaders entry into SL.

Of course if we didn't have a credit crunch maybe the Crusaders would have been fine so we can't discount external factors being why they are in the current situation. I think it's a bit simplistic for people to suggest that Widnes should have had their franchise in the first place as there is a lot more too it than having a nice ground and someone who currently backs the club.

Dave

shambles...........only word i need.

they gave a franchise to open up RL in SOUTH Wales, not north wales.
Let Celtic struggle on in the south, and if this guy from Wrexham wants a superleague team , then let him put his bid in at the next round of franchise applications.

if Celic cant keep up standards, then stick em in a lower division , let em build up to see if they are capable, and in the meantime promote whoever won the NL1 final ..Barrow??? and let em stay until the applications come round again in a couple of years.

and its a farcical U-Turn that the RL are backing this wrexham proposal. Goes against all their proposals to expand by having magic weekends, etc.

having said all that , i have long been an advocate of wanting a team in north wales...round the Chester area.

if the rfl want to expand the game then bring it to the west midlands

Nice, extra game I can can go to.

Oh and !^%"&^%£ shambles! Etc. Works for me though.

What you have to appreciate Dave is that it was an artificial progression in that it was done so with extreme salary cap exceptions, extra players on the quota etc etc; to me, it can only truly be defined as 'success' when achieved within the same rules of your peers. Sure, it would have taken longer for them to get promoted (even from Championship One), but it would have given a better indication of their foundations. Indeed, they have done a lot of good work in South Wales, but it should have been done over a longer period of time without the pressures of Super League that undoubtedly affects the club from top to bottom.

Cumbria must be brought back into the fold before trying to develop SL clubs in other areas, Bring Barrow in and take Crusaders down, any newly developed teams should operate in the lower league for at least 5 year just to make sure it succeeds both financially and on the pitch before attempting to integrate it into SL

I know it was done like that and I am saying that if Neath are to carry the Welsh mantle in future as I think they will, then all those exceptions you mention above can't be allowed again so I think we agree on that.

What I am also saying though is that playing success alone does not prove they are ready for SL and it won't do so even if they have that success without such things as extra players on the quota. So if Neath get to the top of NL1 then there should be no automatic promotion just because they are from South Wales.

Dave

Cumbria is a lost cause to all forms of top line professional sport isn't it? No Premiership soccer club. No top flight RU club and no SL side.

Now you might think that gives us as a sport an opportunity but I thinks its actually an indication the population up there can't support top flight professional sporting sides.

Towns like Barrow, Workington and Whitehaven are just not big enough and a joint side is a none starter as it would have to be on one of those towns so wold soon be considered Workington or wherever.

Dave

on the plus side, they do very good in the sheepdog trials

and i do believe they have high hopes in canoeing for 2012

One thing's going for it. Wrexham is a fabulous night out, and I for one will more than likely take advantage of it.

'Fabulous' is over egging the pudding significantly.

I just feel sorry for Widnes, can you imagine if we were in that position? It would be so disheartening. The only thing IMO Celtic had over Widnes to be in Super League is location. They dont even have that anymore. Widnes have a better fan base, its an RL heartland, better youth development, better stadium, and more than likely better financially. Celtic are a mess.

But back when the franchises were being given out one crucial thing Celtic had (ironically) over Widnes at that time (which is what counts) is they had not recently gone bust.

It's all changed now but back then not giving Widnes the place was sensible. Unfortunately it has turned out badly for Celtic since then.

Dave

Dave your line about not being a hotbed of either code is right at the moment but

The WRU over the last 16 months have developed a strategic plan to create a new 5th Welsh regional team based somewhere in North Wales, 12 months ago they chose Colwyn Bay to be the base and Parc Eiras will have quite a lot of money spent on it for upgrading, theyve just appointed Clive Griffths to head it up and last week the Welsh Ru Youngsters played Australia youth in Colwyn Bay

Additionally Rugby Canada are going to allow some of their more Experienced players to come over in the next few months to help them develop at the right pace ie not rushing the project- saying that Leicester Tigers are sending a team up there next month to play a game

Make no mistake the WRU are serious here and , theyve got plenty of money and time and theres an amateur infrastructure of sorts already there - once again it seems whichever door we try and open RU are in first

if you search around theres plenty of stuff about this on the web

phil

How can anybody take Rugby League seriously in South Wales any longer?

So fustrating.

It's a complete embarrassment and a totally failed project. I have no qualms with the Crusaders and backed their promotion to the Super League but it is obvious that we have all been deceived by the fools at Red Hall.

We have had disastrous 'expansionist' clubs in the past and one would have thought the RFL would have learned from previous mistakes. Catalans seemed to show promise not just for the expansion of the game but that the RFL had learned from previous mistakes and wouldn't fast track sides into SL just to try and look like a national game.

Putting Celtic Crusaders in the lower divisions was also the correct decision but it's patently obvious now that the licence system that is supposed to be the fairest way to have a strong Super League is just a way for Red Hall to pick and choose who they want in the SL. Perhaps the cynics will say this was always the case but for me the RFL must want the game to succeed and they seemed to be making the correct decisions.

This sends us back to square one, what a joke.

The real problem is, it is just neevr ending, there are no announcements, although they have apparently signed Tommy Lee & Michael Witt, but no comments from Celtic, Noble or anyone connected to the club.

The longer it goes on, the more farcical it becomes.

Absolute joke

Typical RFL then

I'm particularly disappointed because the trip to Bridgend was the closest thing I have to a "home" game. I've only got the London game now which is easy to get to!

wigan is nearer to wrexham than bradford only trouble is the town population is around 40000 as wrexham and chester city are only minor team now crusaders could used this chance to be a major sports team in the area and perhaps attract some fans from deeside/ north wales coast were this quite a few people from the north west living their now.

Has this actually been officially announced?