Wonder how many of the Gelling badgers actually saw Iain Thornley's defensive displays at Hull, at Wakefield & at Widnes? He was removed from the field early in two of those games. That's why Gelling got in.

Not a great game for him last night but he has had some good performances as well. Physically he is strong but he needs to work on his mental combination with team mates.

That said I'd have kept Thornley in after last week. If we could fuse the two and have Thornley's attack with Gelling's defence then I'd be well chuffed.

Iv slagged Gelling in the past, and still think there's huge room for improvement but on this occasion im willing to defend him. I dont see what he did so wrong last night, he took his try well, defended well and was always a threat with the ball. He knocked on in the first half and people seemed to have jumped on this one mistake and focused completely on that. At this moment in time he's our best option for left centre, he's more of a threat than Thornley and a better defender. He's certainly improved ten fold since moving into that spot.

People around me weren't even giving him a chance, so what he knocked on twice? Every frigger has done that before, one guy near me screamed 'Get him off were better off with just 12 men on the pitch than having that donkey on' which is just pathetic. For me Jack Hughes makes just as many, if more brain farts/mistakes but no one ever mentions it. His try was class, not many could do that.

He does far more good things, some absolute class things, than he does bad. End of.

I tend to agree with this. He is far too much of a risk to play in the final and I would much prefer to see Thornley there. Gelling is far too much of a liability and has far too many mistakes in him which results in possession being lost at vital times. He doesnt look like a natural centre either and just hasnt the brains or ability to play there.

Thornley has made as many mistakes as Gelling. Hence why he was dropped. Gelling has grown on me, but, im not 100% confident in either of them at Wembley.

When Gelling does good things, they tend to be 'solo efforts' ie the try he took last night, his go forward, taking quick PTB, aerial work. However, it all goes wrong when he has to link in to the rest of the team. He doesnt read the play well when he's on the wing and he doesnt link well with his winger when he's at centre.

the question is - can we 'coach' him a rugby brain ? lots of promise, and potential. but its been nearly 2 seasons now, and he is being hampered by not being allowed to game time with the U19s.

big season for AG next year (I think thats when his contract is renewed isnt it?).

I disagree as do the stats. Gelling has made far more errors than Thornley and has not even played in half the games, that isnt even including the 2 errors (at least) that he made last night. It is also telling that up to now the coaching staff have picked Thornley in the majority of the big games and largely given Gelling a run out against the like of Widnes, Cas, Bradford etc. I cant say that bar a good game against Widnes that he has particulalry impressed against these lesser team either. I dont think Thornley is the finished article either but he is no worse in defence and is a damn site better in attack and can actually play like a centre and set up his winger.

Said exactly the same last night (to the spewing masses).

In reality - none of Thornley, Gelling and Hughes have shown to decent centres. If there was a decent centre available, I dont think anyone would argue about bringing them in.

AG, IT and JH all have good attributes, and have potential. However, next season the younger players like Lloyd, Manfredi and Burgess will all put increasing pressure to get game time in the backs (and all 3 have played centre).

Hughes can move back to a back rower and hopefully with a settled period in a single position can move forward again.
I think that Thornley could be a good Pat replacement, with the ability to cover centre if needed. Although who is to say that he is better than the U19 lads ?

That leaves Gelling - where do you play him ?

Sometime soon, there are going to have to be some serious decisions made. Its obvious that none of the 3 have done enough to secure the position for themselves yet.

Did you not go to Wire away? He had a stormer and was man of the match along with Crosby IMO. That's when he moved ahead of Thornley in the pecking order and he's stayed there bar a game he missed through injury v London. Thornley is worse both sides of the ball IMO, he's been dragged off mid game numerous times for his defensive howlers and Gelling's footwork, strength, speed and offload are all superior, he also regularly tops the metre count, which takes pressure off our young pack.. He just needs to cut out the errors and he'll be fine. Learning to link with the rest of the team will come with gametime

How much game time? one week, 52 weeks, 156 weeks? how many chances does he get? I look at Tuson now and I'm sad hes leaving because he's been the most consistent player of the last few weeks but he wasnt given "gametime" so he opted to leave. Now there are injuries hes getting the regular starts and hes coming on a treat, and good on him. Perhaps I've answered my own point and Gelling needs a good successive run of matches but Tuson never made the errors Gelling has and hes offski, to me that shows a little incosistency in selection, but that happens when you have a big squad. I just hope the lessons have been learned with Tusons transfer. Q What stats do coaches use in determining a player? I wonder if "gut" feeling comes into it, and "face fits" ?

I still believe there’s more good than bad in him. I do wish he would carry the ball better though! He’s very strong when running with the ball.

IMO Thornley is a lower risk player than Gelling, less likely to make a massive error but less likely to do something spectacular.

Gelling has really grown on me this season, yes he makes errors, but he also puts his hand up to try and redeem himself instead of shying away from the ball as others might. He put Burgess in good space on a number of occasions last night, as he's been doing for Richards over the last few weeks. He makes good yards and is a better defender than Thornley. But cause he's not a Wiganer he must be blamed for everything by some.

First of all, Hughes should move back to the 2nd Row full time. He's a dynamic player there. He reminds me of Joel Tomkins - both how he plays in the 2nd Row and how he plays at Centre!

Goulding is one of the best Centres in the league, so that isn't an issue. I don't see a problem with having Gelling and Thornley battle for the other Centre spot next season with the loser providing cover (along with an Academy player) for the Centre position. Both have their positives and negatives, but both are capable of producing in that position.

If it was up to me I'd start Gelling - he's a more dynamic player than Thornley (who has done exceptionally well when you consider this is his debut season!) and looks like he could turn into something very special.

As for Richards' replacement, I thought Burgess looked very assured last night. I have never seen the U19s play, but I have heard that we have several other players also capable of stepping up into that position. I don't think it's an issue.

Neither Thornley (not fast enough) or Gelling (simply not suited to the position) are Wingers in anything other than an emergency.

I think a lot of the handling issues this season (for all teams) are down to the change of ball. In the RL press in the last couple of weeks several players have slated the Rhino ball as being like a bar of soap when you have sweaty hands compared to the old Steeden balls.

As for handling errors, Thornley, prior to last night's match, had made 11 and Gelling 14.

Josh had made 28 and Sam 26. Get rid of the pair of them!

I thought he did ok last night. Took his try superb, looked a threat with ball in hand ans looked to pass to Burges whenever possible.

Terrible! I doubt wigan will keep him on. He will be at Cas by 2015

There always has to be a player for some fans to call rotton.

Gelling now seems to be the flavour.

Off the top of my head over the last few years:

Gelling
Fielden
Pryce
L Tomkins
Feka
Mathers

Finch

hang on now.
there is a big difference between calling someone 'rotten' and having a debate about the merits and capabilities of players.
centre is the one real weakness in our team at the moment, so it is only right that we should debate the merits of those vying for that position.
from what i have seen on this thread, the debate has been of a high level and has not resorted to name calling yet. Lets stop this sillyness now and get back to reasoned discussion of our biggest area of concern.

back on topic

how long do we give both of them before we start looking elsewhere ?
this season ? next season ?
or are we convinced that one of the them will flourish given time and support ? (we are after all at the top end of the table, so not all is bad)

Out of the 3 of them I think Thornley has the most potential to fill the position long term. Gelling should be given some time in the 2nd row from the bench. He runs really hard and makes ground but is prone to handling errors. Thornley has defensive lapses but good hands and in general I've been ok with his progress this season. Hughes is a cracking 2nd row who is capable of filling in at centre when the need arises but I much prefer him in the pack.

Yeah it's more the average fan in the stands to be fair

No matter which position Gelling played, he would still be the team scapegoat for some supporters.

As MattyB has shown, there always been one and many season's ago, it was a certain Keiron O'Loughlin, father of Sean who left the club, went to Widnes and won a Cup Winners medal against us 1984 and also gained International selection.