From the rfl website.

Offence against Try scorer 9. If a player fouls an opponent who is touching down for a try, a penalty kick at goal shall be taken from in front of the goal posts after the attempt to convert the try. After his kick has been taken the ball shall be deemed dead and play shall be restarted from the halfway line. This law applies to the period during which the ball is touched down for a try and not to any subsequent period.

Its worded a bit ambiguosly and it could be interpreted differently by people but the key part is " This law applies to the period during which the ball is touched down for a try and not to any subsequent period."

Which to me means the ball has to be down first.Ganson is the type of ref who would give an 8 point try if the rules allowed it.

But he wasn't, was he?

Example of genuine cases would be a player sliding in on a player scoring a try.

How do you explain the sending off without a resulting free-kick then?

Furthermore, to answer the thread title a penalty try may have been awarded had Tomkins not scored the actual try.

Please don't confuse an 8 point try with a penalty try.

Because play had stopped following the try being scored.

It would be the same if Raynor had subsequently been dismissed for dissent whilst Richards had been taking the conversion. You wouldn't expect an extra penalty for that, would you?

Could be wrong but I don't think he was 5m out was he? Without watching it again I'd say he was a metre or two out? Could be wrong, but I'd say he couldn't have been much further than that, after all he was knocked out and still managed to put the ball down well over the line, surely meaning he was in the act of placing the ball down as he was hit? Is that much different from sliding in to score? That's a genuine question and would be interested to hear from someone who obviously has a better knowledge of the rules than me!

In that case I've got a 2ft penis.

Doesn't matter how far out he was, he wasn't in the act of scoring a try, which it what the rules demand if an 8 point try is to be awarded.

I've never seen an 8 point try be awarded when the player is not over the try line already.

Forgive me, I only saw the incident once (much like Ganson). He was definitely in the field of play.

Fair enough. but if diving to put the ball down isn't in the act of scoring a try, what is?

he was diving over the line so was in the act of scoring, I know the rules thanks

The laws state:

[iIf a player fouls an opponent who is touching down for a try, a penalty kick at goal shall be taken from in front of the goal posts after the attempt to convert the try. After his kick has been taken the ball shall be deemed dead and play shall be restarted from the halfway line. This law applies to the period during which the ball is touched down for a try and not to any subsequent period.[/i

The fact that Tomkins was (or wasn't) diving at the time is irrelevant. He was not touching down for a try by any means.

Bullsh8t. And you know it.

Another Yaaarkshire reinterpretation of a perfectly clear rule.

Where have you pulled the phrase 'act of scoring' from?

I'm but a humble servant of the rules.

Gibberish. If he wasn't touching down for a try how the heck did he he manage to ground the ball whilst unconscious. He's was out cold before he hit the floor. If he was still running upright he'd have just dropped the ball but he was that close to the floor his ball carrying arm just dropped down before he could release the ball

I think if you get knocked out and still ground the ball, you were knocked out in the act of scoring. I seldom gave them in my reffing career but would have done there.

As he was unconscious after the impact yet scored he couldn't have been more in the act of scoring a try.

Touching down for a try means just that - touching down. Tomkins wasn't doing this.

Where have you pulled the phrase 'act of scoring' from?

The rules certainly don't mention this. They are concerned with the player 'touching down'.

So does touching down for a try refer to the ball being in conatct with the floor, or the player being in the act of placing the ball down (ie touching it down for a try)? In my opinion (which could well be wrong) diving to place the ball on the ground would be the act of touching the ball down for a try?

The only 8 point trys ive seen have been given when the player has been fouled after the ball has been grounded

I refer again to the rules:
[i
This law applies to the period during which the ball is touched down for a try and not to any subsequent period.[/i

The ball must be touched down, not simply an attempt to ground the ball, such as diving.

This doesn't surprise me. It's very hard to judge, it's a split-second call.

agree, there is more than one way to touch a ball down, the fact sam still did touch down showed his method was pretty secure!