We are stagnate in attack but is moving Zak away from FB to centre and French to FB really going to add much to our attack given we don’t seem to play that FB link play very much?

I don’t watch much NRL truth be told so I’m nowhere near qualified enough to comment on that as you and others so I will have to take your word for it on whatever it is you say.

Though we agree we need to change our attack I do believe we’re going to have to agree to disagree on this.

So if you don't watch the NRL, when have you seen French play FB? Cos he certainly hasn't played FB for Wigan. Shall I speculate you're making a critique of French at FB without ever seeing him play there? Hmm...

So you are questioning his defence, can only be from seeing him on the wing or at 6, which ironically is where you suggest we play him. Hmmm...

You say we don't play that FB link much anymore; I agree, it's because we don't have a FB who's a second pivot link man. Whereas French is. That's why playing French there is something we should be trying.

Instead Lam will play the same team in the same way as we did last week. What's that what someone famous once said... doing the same thing over again and expecting different results is... madness?

Seems about right.

I haven’t critiqued him as a FB or any position for that matter during our debate. I’ve questioned his defence yes, is it disastrously bad? Not at all. Does it need improvement? Yes but nothing drastic.

I’m against moving Zak away from a role he’s been consistent in all season. We don’t play that FB link with Zak, why would we now change it just because French goes there? Zak has proven in the past (at Cas and Leeds) he can be that link man, and a pretty effective one at that. It baffles me how or why we’ve not used it this season. Moving French there, I feel would result in the same we’ve had all season - no link play.

It makes more sense to me moving French to HB and Tommy to hooker keeping Zak at FB. You’re right in the last paragraph and I completely agree, we do need a change or we’ll get the same result against Saints in the GF (provided we get there of course). I think that change comes from putting French at HB where he can add that attacking flair more than if he was at FB being under utilised like we have with Zak all season.

-How can you say his defence needs improving when you've never ever seen him play FB?
-Zak was never the link man at Leeds or Cas, he played exactly the same game as he does today, albeit he's arguably lost a step of pace.
-Don't know how you can say the result of playing French at FB would result in no link play when a) you've never seen French play FB at Wigan, and b) you've never seen French play FB at all.
-No it doesn't make more sense moving French to the halves. Not in the slightest. I've seen French play 6 for Wigan on several occasions now, did it work? No, not at all. Will it in the future? It might well do, but we're discussing the here and now.

All in all, you question French's defence as a FB even though you've never seen him play FB.
You seem to think Zak has suddenly stopped being a link man when he arrived at Wigan (he's always played the same)
You think the answer is playing French in the halves even though we've all seen it doesn't work currently.

Amazing mate.

- I never questioned his defence at FB. I questioned it in general

- Yes he was

- Because we haven’t played it at all this season so why would we start now by switching French to FB?

- It doesn’t make sense to you. It does to me and others. That’s no slant on you or those who disagree either.

All in all I’ve raised a concern about his defence in general and that moving French to FB wouldn’t make a difference because we haven’t linked in the FB much this season, it seems to have disappeared from our play. Zak has stopped being the link man because we’ve stopped playing it like we did with Tomkins despite Zak being perfectly capable of being such. I don’t think French in the halves is the answer, I suggested it as a possibility to switch up our play.

In all likelihood neither will happen and French will continue to go on the bench and be under utilised.

Added some quick responses in brackets after each post.

We’re just going to go round in a circle. Agree to disagree but agree that Lam will not change anything

I agree there! He won't. But I have to say mate, there's a big difference between a modern day FB and 6. The 6 is the left edge play maker, he's there to put others through gaps and run the ship on the left edge.
The fb, and French can play the link, is an attacking weapon who's linking out the back a little further wide off the 6 and 7. French would enter the line around the back of the SR with a centre and winger out side of him; this is the area of attack to utilise French.

With this unreal pace, quick step and passing ability you want him attacking the edges scaring the hell out of the opposition 3/4 line. Don't waste him having him play as a play maker closer to the ruck, have him further out; this is where he's most effective on each edge.

Running the risk of re-starting here



But.....I cannot fault your logic and rationale for moving French to FB. I’m just not convinced on shifting out Hardaker to centre or that we will play a style which will bring in the FB at this very late stage of the season. Therefore I think we’d be better served with his pace and hands in the halves at this stage. Either way we both know he’ll play the bench utility role on Friday and possibly the GF.

Wherever we play him we’ll not get the best out of him this season, that’s for 2020. Give him a full pre season, work on actually utilising the FB and who knows he could be our starting FB with Zak in the centres. Or he could be a starting HB alongside Hastings.

I’ll let you have the last word

Ok, let's keep it simple...do you think French has looked effective when coming on from the bench to play left pivot? (6).

He looked lively against Saints and got on the scoreboard. As for effective I wouldn’t say so. I realise that is in direct contradiction to my overall point but he was playing behind a beaten pack and a demoralised team. We could have brought on a prime Andy Gregory and he wouldn’t have made a difference.

I think the last time he played there was against Cas at home (correct me if I’m wrong). He did ok, can’t say it was special and I admittedly after that said we shouldn’t play him there. Again in direct contradiction of my general point of view but again IIRC he didn’t play long enough to make an impact or be effective.

IF (big if) he did get a shot at HB and it didn’t go well, I’d quite happily say so and be firmly be against him going there again, same as I would if he went FB. On balance he probably should get a shot at both HB and FB. The issue arises in where do you put Zak? In place of Gildart? Sarginson? I’m not sure I’d want to drop either of them nor would I want to take Zak out of the team. It’s a tough call.

I do see your point. But I feel he's been tried and tested for this season as a half in the most critical time of year. As a fb he's not guiding us around the park but playing off the back of two experienced halves in our structure as a strike weapon in a position he's familiar with. He's actually played far more games as a FB than half.

I have to be careful what I say as I think Zak is a great player, and I would always have him on the pitch. For me, for a trial, I'd play him at centre or even on the wing.

All I'm campaigning for his for French to be given a shot at FB. I don't think for this season, we're getting the best out of French at 6.

As I yours. It’s hypothetical really as to whether we’d get the best out of him at FB, HB or wing, though I do take the point that he’s had his chance in the latter two.

It’s a tough call to make, it’s giving me a headache so I feel for Adrian Lam! But unfortunately we both know it’s going to be Zak at FB, Tommy in the halves and Powell at hooker with French on the bench satisfying neither of us and not changing one iota about the attack.

You're right mate. I don't think Lam will make any changes to the team that was hammered by Saints. Think he already said he wants to give them the chance to redeeM. Which to me says Lam thought it was an attitude problem, not tactics or ability. I find this baffling, if this is the case; there's something seriously wrong if players can't get up for a game which sees us play our local rivals where if we win, we book our place in the GF.

Me and you both. If the players can’t get up for any game v Saints there’s something seriously wrong!

We simply don't have the right type of half to partner French this year. To start him there would be very risky at best.

LSOW;

French went to HB. French did nothing at HB. Finally puts my argument to bed. Happy to go along with him at FB!

French has to be at fullback next year, Zak go centre, Zak has lost a fair amount of pace and his linking play isn’t good enough

I’m inclined to agree from my position if disagreeing a mere 24hrs ago. But this now for me brings in a whole new debate; where was the sense in signing Bibby? We’re stocked for both wingers and centres (assuming for a moment Zak goes to centre).

For the avoidance of doubt I’m not saying I don’t want Bibby at the club, I’m just questioning the sense in his signing.

The Bibby and Clark signings were always strange ones, Clark now I’d give him game time ahead of Flower Clubb and Navarette, but Bibby will probably spend the first few games in the reserves but he’s a good player tbf, I’d be inclined to let Hankinson leave simply because French should be at 1 with Zak at 3 and Bibby backup

Haha! No worries mate. It was a bad performance all round by us. Not just French’s positioning.

One to forget!

And quickly! A lot to do in the pre season.

Phuzzy gets it.

With Hastings with French playing off him we might well see a different attacking formation which allows us to having a running 6 in comparison to a left and right pivot.

But if we’re going to split the halves I’ll always see French as the best option for FB.

I highly rate Zak, it’s more a commentary on how we’re playing and the system rather than a criticism of Zak as a FB.

French looks an out an out winger to me. I don't think he's played any senior RL games as a half back. Zak has proven me wrong. Not only has he had a good season, he's one of the few who never lets his head drop when things are going bad. He's my player of the season which is not something I expected to be posting.

I don't see the point in moving Zak on the off chance French might do better as a full back.

Did you ever see French play FB at Parra?