Quote ="Div"Coming on great its very exciting. If anyone is interested plenty of photos here : www.redvee.net/forums/showthread ... um-Watch-4'" [url=http://viewtopic.php?f=18&t=385845&start=1455Plenty of photos on this very long RLFans thread too.[/url

Quote ="Div"Coming on great its very exciting. If anyone is interested plenty of photos here : www.redvee.net/forums/showthread ... um-Watch-4'" [url=http://viewtopic.php?f=18&t=385845&start=1455Plenty of photos on this very long RLFans thread too.[/url

You said this:

"It wasn't a bridging loan if the terms were that it could be paid back over ten years." which clearly show you questioning the type of loan stated given the "ten years" bit.

The redeemable bit clearly refers to the total debts of the club, overdraft/loans etc which they expect to be paid off over ten years. I suggest you go back and read it properly rather than question others when you clearly don't know yourself.

She can't see when a player is stood with two feet on the touchline, how do you expect her to understand the total debt the club is in before the move, and when the other part come to light then it could be a lot more.

But yes it does look a nice stadium.

Without a doubt the best purpose built RL stadium in the country but it is still just similar to the HJ but with corners and a little bigger. Still not premier league standard. Can't wait for the first derby in the new ground...

How many does the away terrace hold?

Why has this thread turned into a slanging match about how much debt Saints will be in, who cares?

We haven't been in a stadium with decent, revenue generating facilities for over 20 years either (quite the opposite, we've been in a cash draining ramshackle pit), so not sure what your point is.

When did Wigan last post a profit before moving to the JJB? Or Hull before moving to the KC? Or Wire before moving to the HJ?

History suggests that better facilities for fans = more fans and better facilities for corporates = more corporates. Both = more cash.

The poster who mentioned Saints dwindling crowds is also wide of the mark - in 2000 and 2001 we had sub 9k attendances. In 2009 and 2010 we had over 11k averages, 2010 was up over 27% on 2000. Of course the attendances have dwindled at Widnes, but it didn't take a genius to predict that.

A 12k plus average at the new stadium is VERY achievable and is plenty for Saints to turn a profit, given the other revenue generating facilities on site IMO (not least the fact we will start to see a return on match day catering etc which we didn't at KR).

Some good points being made here amongst the Saints/ W/L Andy (why I am not surprised?

) bickering...

£2.5m is cheap in terms of the cost to acquire a great stadium (albeit on the small side).

The £2.5m does look challenging though to clear in 10 years. Even assuming the £1m directors' loans don't carry interest Saints would be paying interest of 90k a year on the £1.5m balance (assuming interest at 6%) even on an interest only basis. To then repay capital on top as well looks challenging to me, given that Wigan, with the same SC to work with but much bigger crowds is only going to make £75,000-£200k profit this season. Having said that, Saints may be able to generate more revenue from owning their own ground (but equally over the longer term will face more costs than Wigan because of the maintenance and upkeep of the stadium).

The fact that what is a relatively small sum in the commercial world could cause Saints real problems is a damning indictment of the weak financial state of the game.

It looks like I might need a restraining order soon the amount of times you have to mention me in unrelated posts. Three times in two days is starting to get into stalker territory. If I'd known how much of a nerve I'd touched that you obviously can't get over it, I'd have done it much sooner.

The reason I mentioned you was that I was amused (and frankly relieved

) to find that I am far from being the sole object of your attacks... in terms of touching a nerve, it's hard to take your personal attacks personally when I am just one of many victims!

As everyone else can see it was actually Rogues who was bickering with some Stains fans, one of who tried to claim he and other didn't know what they were talking about when they themselves clearly didn't. I just put them right with the facts.

Of course it comes as no surprise that you couldn't see that, and had to focus on me - like you've done three times in the last two days when discussing something else.

Stalker.

I also see you've now decided to go into victim mode as well claiming "personal attacks".

The only victim at the moment is me with you stalking me at every opportunity.

Finances apart, it does look like a very nice stadium. Are both ends terracing?

Would you not be hoping for more than a 1k increase going into a new stadium? Look what Hull and Warrington have achieved since moving stadiums?

I would hope that Saints doing well in a new stadium could mean 14k+ average. Sell-outs against us and wire with big crowds against Leeds and Widnes. 12k seems a bit poor to me, although it is probably more realistic seeing as you have spent a year at Widnes (maybe more).... it would have been much easier moving had it been straight from KR.

Sell outs against us and you v saints is a given.

Both the HJ and Saints sell out and we are usually not far of at the DW lately.

There's a real passion for the games with each other. Hopefully Widnes fans will start coming out the woodwork now they're in SL and their boss being able to spend at cap limit should see them challenging in a few years.

Aye this side of the pennines is certainly dominating the sport at the moment, the games between the 3 teams are huge at the moment. Hopefully it will stay that way and Widnes will tap into that. I hope they spend to the full cap, that should mean some huge games between the 4 teams.

Widnes naturally will benefit from the great away support of the North west clubs, i guess they would be looking at 3-4k wire fans, 3k wigan and 1.5-2k saints fans every year. This alone is a decent boost to the finances. I think Widnes will use the full cap next year also, as the owner has said (previously) that hes willing to splash the cash.

More than that from saints, they will be used to going to Widnes, they will take loads!

Hopefully they will get saints or wigan as the first game at home so they can get a sell-out. Same for Salford.

I agree entirely fella, just making the point that even at approx 12k I would imagine we'd have a profitable club. I would expect 14k+ average in year one due to novelty factor.

I actually think the fact we've been at Widnes may mean the crowds jump even more - everybody is desperate for the ground to open and can't wait tt set foot in it, even more so than when we were at KR (as the stadium threads on rlfans and redvee testify). The anticipation is enormous.

Exciting times, gutted I live down south and won't be able to go to every game in season 1

Do you think there'll be that much of a jump at the new ground? Especially one that could be sustained?

I think there is a big different between you lot and when Hull and the Dire moved. You've always been winning/challenging for pots pretty much all the way through SL, whereas with Hull and the DIre when they moved it was the start of an ambitious phase which will in part explain their bump in attendance, given the complete lack of success or competitiveness before they made the move.

True, but the counter argument would be that we didn't get the crowds our success deserved, in no small part due to the cackhole we played in (some people didn't go to KR but would go to away games, my mum included, for facilities reasons).

That said, I've always been of the opinion that the town doesn't support the team in the manner it should, so I suppose it's a big question mark until next October when we can look back on the first season there.

Hopefully we'll get a historically poorly attended fixture as our first league game there.

Exactly where down south? Hope you're nowhere near me!!

Yes, 3000 either end.

No, you honed in on my PS. That wasn't the point of my post. The point of my post was the bit I highlighted in bold and underscore. From the quote Rogues claimed was taken from the Council website (using a link which didn't work), there was a specific link made between the sale of Knowsley Road and the bridging loan of £2.5 million. We don't know from the quote apparently lifted from the Council website whether that loan was ever taken out or, if it was, when it was taken out. The existence of directors' loans are public knowledge. The sale of KR and the directors' loans are financing the building of the stadium. The Council, NWDA and Tesco are taking care of the rest of the site (plus the bridge, which is going to look stunning).

But moving on ...

The major selling point of Saints new stadium was its potential to regenerate the town, not just in terms of providing employment but also by providing opportunities for events, corporate and otherwise, which in turn will bring business people and visitors into the town. There was also supposed to be a Council run youth facility in the stadium. Whether that is still going ahead with all the melodrama of the cuts I don't know (I say melodrama because the Council have swayed between claiming 4000 redundancies and up to 100 redundancies as a result of cuts - so far I haven't read of any redundancies, but they may have happened anyway). But that was the plan. There is also a sizeable function room in there and there is the possibility of the club obtaining a licence to hold concerts and the like also. The idea is for the stadium to be open and offering something or other for seven days a week, much like the HJ and perhaps the DW. So while its primary function is as a rugby league stadium, the club will have opportunities to generate income that they couldn't even dream of at KR.

As for the fans ... I've no idea whether a new stadium will boost fan numbers because the people of St Helens bemuse me. I'm still trying to fathom out why a couple of guys I stood with for years at Knowsley Road flatly refused to travel to Widnes this season, simply because it was Widnes and not St Helens where Saints were playing. They were annoyed that they were being asked to go there, thinking Saints should have moved straight into the new stadium (like Taylor Wimpey almost going bust was the fault of Saints!). They didn't seem to care that not going to Widnes was depriving the club they claimed to love of valuable income. Nope, they weren't going to budge. There are some seriously weird people in my hometown!

Whatever the point of your post was (I'm still not sure) you said a number of people didn't know what they were talking about and did the same, by not understanding what the quote was saying in terms of loans/debt, and more specifically the relationship between the two.

You've just done it again BTW, the bridging loan wasn't quoted as £2.5m it was £8m. The total debt of the club, including the interest capitalised from the bridging loan was expected to be £2.5m.

I'd love a RL only stadium but it sin't going to happen. The atmosphere at JJB is totally flat sometimes, but I put that down to the lack of away fans. The last two home games against wire andstains have been great, getting more away support is the key for me.
The stadium itself is a great facility with good views and access. The shadow of the 'tics does bother me still after the play off debacle but I'd like to think lessons have been learnt from that to prevent it happening again, which means I'm probably happy with what we've got, because Central Park can NEVER be recreated.

I do have one wish though. Just one. Another bridge over the canal please.

Like I said, that wasn't the point of my post. I was interested in when, and it was in response to Rogues. But you carry on deliberately missing the point just because you want to play childish games.