This has got to be classed as failure to any team, finishing top and not getting the plaudits.

To an extent, yes. but I think it depends who you lose to and how. A tight game against a team that's pushed you all the way has to be less disheartening than a Warrington-esque choke after a storming season.

That said, history only remembers who won, not whether it was close/deserved or otherwise.

Grand final win, any less from here is failure. Challenge cup is lovely but i want both.

It is a strange one because being top you get two chances to progress. Losing both play off games and the winners of the Grand Final not being one of them you lost to must be even harder to take.

League Leaders shield is a lot harder to win than BOTH of the other major prizes .
You have to win more games to win the hubcap than to win the CC AND the GF .
3 games for a SL team to get to the CC final is it ?
You have to win around 14 games out of 27 to qualify for the playoffs , then win three or four games to be GF winners .
GF winners is achievable with around 17 wins . CC achievable with 4 wins .
The total amount of wins needed to win the CC AND GF is about the same as (or could be done with less) is what is required to win the LL .

League Leaders shield is THE ONE for me .

BTW . We were not ( in my opinion) back to back to back champions . We just won the GF three in a row . Saints were the champions most of that time .

But the Grand Final is all that counts and is recognised more, the same in Australia, being minor premiers doesnt mean a thing down under.

I think the players should get medals for finishing top.

Look at the current league table . 8th position could possibly win the GF with only 19 wins from 31 . Your goodselves and Wire both have more wins than that already . How could they possibly be deemed champions over you or Wire ?

Team A could go on a winning streak of 30 games .
Team B wins enough to qualify for the playoffs (13 ) , and gets through them and wins the GF
You tell me who you (regardless of the current structure) consider to be the real champions . Would you be happy for a team that had won ten less games than you to be named as champions above you ?
Imagine it happening in football . Mr Ferguson wouldn't be happy for the team that finished 12th to be champions now would he .

Think history might remember how many grand finals the scousers have lost in a row aswell

lets face it,if we did win the hub cap we'd all be shouting how the hub cap is the one to win as it judges who is the best team over the whole year,if we don't win the hubcap and win the grand final we'd all be saying that it's only the grand final winners that go into the history books,the only way to stop any arguements is to win both,only then can you put any arguements to bed.unfortunatley I think that there will be 2 teams maybe 3 that have bragging rights this year.we have the challenge cup,the hub cap is now in the hands of others, the grand final is still in the mix,the best thing we can do is get to old trafford and win 2 out of the 3,but I will still acknowlege the fact that the winners of the hubcap have been the most consistant team (whoever thats going to be)

Agree to you with an extent, but in the last 3 rounds of the CC and the GF play offs your playing the best teams with more intensity. Half the wins the bigger clubs play to get the LL shield are played against lower teams and are blow out scores.

It would not happen. Team A seem too good for team B.

I understand your reasoning but...
A team loses more games to win the shield. Also, to win the shield a team can rest when playing bottom of the table teams. To win the Grand Final it's sudden death after the first week with all teams extra determined.
To win the challenge cup Wigan had to beat Bradford, Warrington, Saints and Leeds. All were sudden death and extremely hard games, much harder than winning the league last year. It was hard to win the Grand Final last year, having to win at Leeds after they turned us over at home and then beating Saints.
I consider the play-offs an extension of the league campaign. A team has to work hard all season to finish as high as possible and then lift their performances for the play-offs. The bookies also consider the competitions are linked because I could not get a double on the 2 competitions.

Whatever happens this season can't be seen as a failure. Ok it hasn't lived up to last year but 2010 was only such a great year because it had followed about 6 or 7 really poor regular seasons in a row.

To be honest I think we'd done brilliantly to still be on Warrington's backs going into the last game considering how well they've played and how we've dealt with the World Club Challenge, being a game behind (and thus chasing top) for 17 weeks, getting through a midweek match, having to play big cup ties all away from home, then the cup final itself. Should last weeks tired display (which is what it was in my view, more about us being shattered than Warrington brilliance) have been that much of a surprise?

And to those fans who think the "league leaders shield is the one" - seriously, go to your rooms! It's all about lifting the title at Old Trafford in October - simple as that!

EDIT: I just re-read the original question which asked if 1st and not winning grand final is failure. It does depend how you lose out but its definetly the worst way to lose out. I'd have been gutted had Saints beat us in the final last year!

Totally. All the teams know this at the start of the year. Winning the hubcap means zip in the overall scheme of things.

Its a fantastic achievment finishing top and to say it isn't just because Warrington are going to win it is ridiculous, seems to me some people on here are clutching at straws.

It's odd how little prestige coming top gets you over here compared to Australia.

Wire would be deserving winners having done the double over us and Saints, but you wouldn't put it past them to mess it up on Friday.

Correct, cant see it though, Wire seem to have the right mentality this year under Smith.

whilst the play-off's are exciting and good to watch, for me, im still of the opinion that the team who finishes top of the league should be the champs

Its 38 years since Warrington last finished top of the league at the end of the regular season.
We will consider it a fabulous achievement if we are lucky enough to do so again this season so in that context we will cherish it and talk about it for years!!
Yourselves, St Helens and Leeds to an extent would probably be less euphoric in that your succes has been much more frequent and expected.
Whoever finishes top will have earnt it and deserve it and will rightly be classed as the most consistent team of the season which in itself is an accolade to be proud of.
However I think I speak for most when I say that to finish 2nd 3rd or even lower and to go on to win the Grand Final in the current Super League format would be a much preferable and more memorable option.

I see the point about 8th becoming champions etc, but for me, that's the way the competition is set up, everyone knows that at the start, so the Champions are the team who win the Grand Final.

The hub cap is nice, and I'd rather win it than not win it, but it's in at least 3rd place behind the Grand Final and Challenge Cup for me in terms of prestige, and maybe even behind the World CLub Challenge. It just isn't the ultimate aim of the competition.

I'd find it hard to count Wigan's season a failure (I'll try really hard...

) if they don't win the Grand Final (which I think they will anyway) since there's silverware in the cabinet again. Likewise, Wire are not champions in my book unless they win at Old Trafford, regardless of whether they win the hub cap. Finishing top is an achievement, but not the ultimate goal.

BaldRick, would you really swap the 07 and 08 titles for the hubcaps? I know I wouldn't.

It's amazing how quickly the Wembley shine has faded.

While it was great to win at Wembley - more lasting memories to add to many already in the locker, the Grand Final still feels like a bigger test to me.

Okay, this year's CC was possibly an exception to the rule because Wigan took the toughest route to Wembley that I've ever seen. But it's still possible to get there and play nobody of consequence. The play-offs are the exact opposite of that. There is no easy way through. In fact you can only get to OT and win by beating all the other top teams in the competition.

I'll have enjoyed 2011 immensely even if we don't win anything else, but if it came down to it, I would still swap the Challenge Cup for the Championship.

I will be disppointed if we fail to win the shield on Friday night (I don't expect us to BTW).

Two games for me that stick out this season:

Stains at Cardiff, cruising at 16-0 with fifteen/twenty minutes to go and were lucky to get a draw in the end.

Similar story at Cas away, storming away at 20-0 (Pat Richards dropped ball), again screwed up and only came away with a draw.


Those two games for me have probably lost us the shield.