Look at both the Leeds and Wigan sides.

Then tell me that Superleague has improved the game.



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How many of the current Wigan / Leeds teams would get anywhere near those sides.

Most clubs have and are improving, or are you solely basing your opinion on the playing squads, or your excrutiating painful memoires of "when Wigan were great".

No, what I and many others have been saying for quite a while, Superleague may be more competitive but the standards have slipped.

How many of the current Saints squad would get into those Wigan and Leeds sides?

I don't believe the smaller clubs are being dragged forward, I think the bigger clubs are being dragged back. The game is not attractive to watch these days - even compared to five years ago. The multiple interchange system makes the game far, far, far too forwards dominated in my opinion.

ps In regards to the "excrutiating painful memoires" aimed at Rogues Gallery - thats a daft statement to make to him. He watched Wigan in Division 2 in what was the culmination of a dire late 70s period for our club!

Exactly right, until the cap moves to 50% of turnover and actually apply the franchise criteria when making decisions, you will NEVER encourage clubs to improve.

If by "competitive" people mean that standards are well on their way to becoming uniformly low, I would agree.

said the exact same thing on another thread this morning. hopefully it will be a temporary thing but we all seem to have forgotten the world cup.
i fear the four nations will be embarrassing

Considering that both places very nearly didn't have teams a couple of seasons later because of throwing money they couldn't afford at those teams, I'd be worried if they weren't sh[ii[/it-hot.

Standards have slipped since the start of Super League.
Where as clubs like Wigan & Leeds overspent on salaries now all SL clubs are under investing in player production.
Around six clubs last year will have turnovers of £5m-£6m with Leeds reportedly around the £7m mark.
We need to invest more in player recruitment, development and retention.

iestyn harris has suggested there be an age limit on foreigners playing over here. he suggests 30 be the limit.

Is that even legal?

Apart from Schofield and Hanley those Leeds teams are distinctly average.

Aye, right!

I'd have burrow over Holroyd any day of the week.

I'd take Peacock over either prop.

I'd take Buderus over Lowes too.

I'll ask again, how many of the current Saints side would get in the
1) those Wigan sides
2) those Leeds sides


I'll even help you.

Gidley in place of BJ Mather

Even the Leeds fans admit it.

Then ask yourself , how many of the current Wigan and Leeds players would get into those sides

Then come back and tell me how the standard is better in Superleague today.

Webb before Tait.
Burrow before Holroyd
Donald before Cummins
And Senior would probably get in before Iro IMO
and Hanly is the only player in those old Leeds side who'd get into the current side.

This forum is like an episode of Time Team at times.

The point is that the salary cap and 20/25 etc. have not improved the the weaker sides, they have weakened the stronger ones.

I would like to see saints of 2006 take on the best wigan side from 20ish years ago, it would be interesting to see the outcome.

It's an interesting one - in terms of basic skills and having natural ability in key positions the Wigan side of the era would win hands down. In terms of fitness, conditioning and a game that seems to be based on brute strength and brawn both in the backs and forwards the Saints side of 2006 would win. As it's never going to happen we can only speculate.

As for the Leeds side of the 1994 & 1995 cup finals they were merely the best of an awful bunch of teams behind Wigan especially in 1995 hence why they rolled over quite easily against such a good side. Indeed the Leeds side of 1995 were beaten 69-12 in the Premiereship final in 1995 after losing at Wembley 30-10.

It would be close for an hour but the Saints of 2006 would beat that old Wigan side. I think the Bulls team of 03 would too.

They would in terms of fitness over the 80 minutes yes. But they might be too far behind come half time in real terms, they simpily wouldn't be able to apply a modern defence to the skill levels we saw in our team of Edwards, Greg & Hanley.

Thought this for a while TBH. Until teams are allowed to fully spend what they earn, standards will slip. If we've got the money to spend, why shouldn't we spend it? Just because some of the smaller teams like Cas, Wakey et al can't keep up, it drags down the more ambitious teams. Supporters of the SC think that it should be entirely possible that a team could win the league one year and finish bottom the next (that's true competition, yes?). If this is the case then we might as well forget the whole thing and draw who wins the games out of a hat.

how do you think offiah would go in the modern game, i suspect he would be alot like penny, scores some gooduns, lets in alot too, wigans team were so far ahead of everyone else they only needed 12 defenders at the time, but that has changed now

And what happend when these teams were allowed to spend what they earnt? Several ('Big') clubs nearly went under. Wigan can spend the same as Leeds and Saints, why haven't they been challenging for trophies?

because leeds and saints didnt have a set of duck eggs choosing which players to bring in.