Super League form rewarded as Wane names squad to travel to Toulouse England Head Coach Shaun Wane has named a 20-strong squad ahead of Saturday’s mid-season international against France in Toulouse. And several new faces are included, among them Castleford Tigers centre Sam Wood, Wigan Warriors hooker Brad O’Neill, Hull KR loose forward Elliot Minchella, St Helens prop George Delaney, Huddersfield Giants forward Oliver Wilson and Leeds Rhinos forward James McDonnell. Brad O’Neill has been almost ever-present for the Wigan over the last two years, playing an integral role in the Warriors’ successful pursuit of all four available trophies – the Betfred Super League, League Leaders’ Shield, Betfred Challenge Cup and World Club Challenge. READ MORE ON THIS STORY...

Super League form rewarded as Wane names squad to travel to Toulouse England Head Coach Shaun Wane has named a 20-strong squad ahead of Saturday’s mid-season international against France in Toulouse. And several new faces are included, among them Castleford Tigers centre Sam Wood, Wigan Warriors hooker Brad O’Neill, Hull KR loose forward Elliot Minchella, St Helens prop George Delaney, Huddersfield Giants forward Oliver Wilson and Leeds Rhinos forward James McDonnell. Brad O’Neill has been almost ever-present for the Wigan over the last two years, playing an integral role in the Warriors’ successful pursuit of all four available trophies – the Betfred Super League, League Leaders’ Shield, Betfred Challenge Cup and World Club Challenge. READ MORE ON THIS STORY...

Super League form doesn't extend to the leading try scorer and the best winger at the minute.

Had this debate of Facebook a while bank and whilst I love Marshal I just don’t see him as an international winger when it comes to playing the top tier nations.

He is very effective at what he does in SL but against the Aussies and Kiwis I just feel his style won’t transfer well and that is probably why he is missing out on these opportunities as Wane tries to develop a team in mind for the World Cup.

It’s tough on him as like you say his form has earned it but sometimes style is more important and whilst he wins contact in SL and would obviously against the lesser nations him carrying into the guts of the Aussie/Kiwis/Samoans etc I don’t think he wins contact nearly as often and doesn’t get us on the front foot which is what he is so good at for us in SL.

Not sure what I think about the squad and the way it has been picked. Marshall & Ashton would be my 2 wingers if we were going into a proper Test game based on form alone (without the NRL contingent), with Johnston & Handley close behind.

Trying to go toe-to-toe and do it in the same style as the Aussies categorically won't work for England in my opinion. If we've to have any chance of beating the top sides (and that could me Tonga, Samoa, Aus, or NZ) in the big competitions we need to do it our own way, not try to simulate what those sides do based around the NRL style and be better than them at it. Game 3 against Tonga in the series last year was a prime example - games 1 and 2 were close where we played it their way. Shackles were off a bit in game 3 (plus Willams was back) and we absolutely dusted them playing a different style of rugby.

I agree with that, which is probably why Marshy misses out.

I feel for the lad as he’s a fantastic SL player.

At the risk of starting another argument with you he ran for 144 metres against Penrith. It's nuts to write him off against Aussie opposition when he consistently does it against the best in Superleague and has done it against the best the Aussies have to offer too when given the chance. At what point do facts rather than perception come into play? He's equally, or even more, effective as any of the incumbents at club level and has consistently out performed Tommy Makinson in recent years who has had a pretty good international career, wouldn't you say?

Top finisher, consistent try scorer with pace to burn and among the best when bringing the ball out of yardage. Sounds like the ideal formula for a winger if you ask me!

Unlucky to not get picked.

Part of the challenge is balancing form with style of play and having consistency in the squad.

No doubt and I've no issue with the players chosen. It's the suggestion that Marshall couldn't cut it at international level that I take issue with. Based on what exactly?

It’s not an argument it’s a debate, surely that’s what this is all about.

I would expect Marshys stats to be high against Penrith as we were pretty much on the pack foot for the entire match with them applying lots of pressure with the long kicking game pinning us in our half.

I know they don’t publish stats like this but the coaches will have them in regard post contact metres and play the ball time. Was listening to a podcast possibly Bloke in a Bar and the PTB speed on the night was nearly 4 seconds compared to just over 2 in the NRL meaning there was plenty of laying on from both sides to be fair and I’m not sure we get that luxury at international level.

Dom Young is nailed on for one wing and I’d say it’s a 3 horse race for the other between Johnston, Handley and Ashton as I think we will go for athleticism and compared to others I think Marshy is less naturally athletic than those lads.

Looking at the opposition generally the outside backs are also natural athletes, Coates, Tuilagi, Turbo, Mitchell, Addo Carr etc and all quite a bit taller than Marshy too which will make him a target.

There were comments on social media about Robinson and indeed To’o in regards height but I’d say these guys had outstanding traits too particularly around athleticism that Marshy doesn’t.

I’m his biggest fan in SL I think both him and Miski are a big part of our success as whilst yes they do finish well their main strength is their carries out of our 30 and getting a quick PTB to get us on the front foot. Against the tier 1 sides I don’t think they will be nearly as effective at doing that because they are bigger, stronger, faster and more athletic than SL players.

There have been plenty of good SL players who don’t make an impact on the international stage I’d say Sinfield was one too who was a great SL player, one of the best but his lack of athleticism saw him not be able to make anywhere near the same impact for the national team.

If it were the choice of 1 coach you could maybe understand it however various coaches have overlooked him now including 1 regarded as a coaching legend and indeed now a man that has coached him at club level.

You mention Sinfield as one who didn't make an impact at international level but he was picked out by the great Wally Lewis as one to build the England team around. More importantly he got his chance despite perceived weaknesses particularly around his build and lack of pace. Marshy has been the best winger this year. I doubt any reasonable judge would argue against that. In fact he has outscored Tom Johnstone by more than 2 tries to 1! Now I'm not arguing against Johnstone being picked; far from it. I'm just saying any team "picked on form" would include the best winger in the comp, and that's currently Marshall.

Obviously, then, it isn't a team picked on form which then becomes an entirely separate discussion.

As an aside, Jon, you mention he hasn't been picked by 2 successive coaches but Bennet's choices were often bizarre and usually consisted of playing players out of position. He'd rather have a stand off floundering on the wing or a 2nd row offering little in attack at centre than picking actual centres or wingers! Plus Marshy wasn't among the best then. As for Wane, we all know he's size in the backs, mobility in the forwards. Always has been. Doesn't make it the only choice. Nor does it make it the right one.

Is anyone saying the form team has been picked officially? I appreciate that’s the title of the article but a coach has to select a team he thinks is going to have the best chance of winning and for whatever reason Bennett and Wane have not picked him.

A coach always picks on style and coaches always have players they like and don’t. No coach will know more about Marshall than Wane and again I think it simply comes down to raw athleticism.

I’d also say and this can only ever be speculation would TJ, Handley or Ashton have the same number of tries, less or more were they playing for Wigan over their respective teams. It’s all speculation and ultimately what a coach at international level lives or dies by.

I genuinely hope Marshall gets a cap at some point, I think he deserves it, but like the current coaches I’m less confident with him on the wing vs a tier 1 side than I am some of the others who are ahead of him in selection at the moment and that comes down to style over form.

I feel for Marshall because I don't think players like Ash Handley or Matty Ashton (players picked ahead of him in recent months) are physical specimens, who will overly worry the major nations, so then to me you should be picking on form and Marshall is the form winger in super league. If he isn't getting in for this game I feel he can at least draw a line under any chances of getting caps with Wane in charge.

One thing I will say though is that internationals can never be picked solely on form and there are clear reasons why guys like Harry Smith and Micky Lewis get in above Marc Sneyd or why Tom Johnstone gets in ahead of Marshall. They have both international experience and have played well for England in the recent past. They also seem to thrive in big games, so it's never as straightforward as just picking a form team. The squad looks fine to me (outside of me thinking Marshall has been pretty unfortunate).

So to cap it all Jon you agree that Marshy is the best SL winger and you love.
You also say that he deserves a cap this game would be Ideal for said cap.
You say the reason he did so many mtrs against Penrith is because we were on the back foot but isnt that even a better return as he got us out of trouble and kept going all game against the top team in Australia which he shouldnt have been able to as they are more athletic surely.
Leading top try scorer this season by a mile out paced the great athletic Makinson in the CC semi (the one who would have got in the side anyway).
Really he should have been given the chance against France,unless he is given the chance we will never know.
I wouldnt swap him for aany other Winger in SL.
I agree Young is the obvious choice for the other wing.

For me if Marshy doesn't get a chance we will never know how good or bad he is in a international game.

Let's just say that I'm happy Wane isn't picking the Wigan team anymore.

I'm sure he's useful in his "culture" role at the club, but I just feel sorry for anyone who has to sit in a meeting with him for longer than 15 mins.

I wonder how many gems he'll come out with this week.

I love the talk around Sneyd that you see online as if Wane is picking an old plodder in Harry Smith instead of him and that it is a complete disgrace.

It's almost like Harry Smith hasn't guided teams to a
LLS
Grand Final Win
Series sweep vs. Tonga
WCC Win
Challenge Cup win

all in the last 12 months, i never realised the lad was in such poor form!!

But Sneyd is scoring 3 MOS points regularly as a big fish in a mid table team so i suppose he must have him beat, silly me.

Was Wally missing the fact we had Scully, Faz and SoL all playing at the same time as Sinfield, and there was no way he was playing 13 over any of the other 3, hence why we tried to squash him in at either 6 or 9 for his goal kicking

Another example would be Ryan Hall. He scored tries for Leeds but was never (correct me if i am wrong) top try scorer in any season he played at Leeds, however, put him into an England / GB shirt and he was a different class altogether, he was meant to play in the big games, and suppose this is where the argument is at. Hall never topped the charts but was an international all day long, but Marshy can top the charts, but there is apprehension about him performing at that top level?

I think on form he or Miski are probably the most effective wingers in SL.

I do think he deserves a cap and hope he gets one, Wane though is building towards a World Cup and this is a vital game in the prep for that then building again during the series against Samoa, if he isn’t part of those plans he shouldn’t be given a run in this test.

He did a lot of kick returns and carries as he always does probably more, did he get us out of trouble though? I’d say not as we were hardly out of our 40 metre are for long periods of the game.

Mackinson not been selected and isn’t the athlete he was so not sure how that’s relevant age is catching up with him.

In regards SL we put a hefty offer in for TJ before he moved to Catalans and I believe made enquiries again this year so he’s definitely rated by the club and coaches.

Best winger in attack...

But what about his defence? How has he been under the high ball?

Wane will need to consider all of these things and Jon outlined it perfectly when looking at the sheer size, speed and athleticism of the Aussie backline - This is what you're up against and its a different kettle of fish to super league.

Englands most successful wingers in recent memory are Makinson, Hall and McGillvary - Take a look at their body type and style of play compared to Marshalls and you can start to understand.

If I’m picking my best backline at the moment I think it pretty much picks itself -

1. Welsby
2. Young
3. Farnworth
4. Wardle
5. TJ
6. Williams
7. Smith

It’s maybe as strong and well balanced a backline as we have potentially had for a good few years.

Makinson is injured hence not selected.
Miski also didnt get us out of the 40 against Penrith and he is the form winger as is Marshall I think it was the opposition that stopped the 2 form wingers not getting out the 40 (would TJ do better,who knows).
TJ is a quality winger no doubt,I would still have Marshall above him.
Anyway until Marshall gets a chance we will never know.

Change TJ for Marshall I would agree

His defense has been outstanding! I'm not sure why you would even make that comment?

He's been better against these bigger, more athletic backs in Superleague than these bigger, more athletic backs have been against each other. He's outperformed the incumbents every single time he's come up against them, literally without exception. Plus he did the same against the bigger, more athletic backs playing for Penrith. What further credentials do you need?

This is exactly my point with Jon. You are generalising rather than dealing with the actual facts. Sure bigger is better as a rule but tell that to Rob Burrow, Jason Robinson, Alfie Langer, Andrew Johns and the many, many others who have made a mockery of this generalisation. Now, I'm not saying Marshy stands in that company necessarily but he's a top performer in every situation he's been placed in and risen to every challenge. He is currently the best winger in the comp and has been top 5 for a few seasons now.

I'm not saying he should be the current England winger. I'm a strong believer that a player should lose his place as much as someone else taking it and none of the current choices above him have done anything to lose their place. What I am saying is he's unlucky to not be picked if the squad is supposedly on form. I also think it's something of a missed opportunity to get another player into the mix. The Samoa tests are at the end of the year and no one can predict availability by then.