We are weak in the centres, and I'm concerned that this injury may be one too many. If he can't come back, we will struggle unless we strengthen that position.

I think we're fine in a position that's possibly the weakest across the whole of the league. Aside from maybe Leeds pair I don't think I'd consider swapping our two for any other pair in the league. After that Thornley will be back at some point, we have Tomkins and Bateman who could both step in comfortably and then we have the best young centre in the game in Gildart. I also still think all three of our wingers could do a job there. I've fancied seeing Charnley given a shot at centre since his HKR spell all those years back.

In short- We're fine IMO.

I saw him at the kids' party last week and he is, as Brian Noble would say, a large human being. He's 23 and has proven in patches to be quality. There are few his size in the centres in SL and I am sure he has plenty to offer injuries permitted, hopefully at Wigan.

Agreed with this, centre shouldn't really be a worry to us. I'm far more concerned about the second row situation with Hughes and Burke out on season long loans. Not many games between the likely reserves, C.Farrell and Lever. Particularly when you consider that Lockers is bound to miss a few

I couldn't disagree more.
Tomkins never impressed at centre and Bateman played for approximately 60 minutes at Saints and suddenly he was capable of being a top class centre - I don't think he has played there since nor does he on a regular basis make telling passes or breaks.
We have in my opinion the best all round winger in SL for finishing in Charnley and my biggest worry for next season is that he won't get enough quality ball to give him sufficient chances to post another +30 tries in a season.
We have a shed load of cover in the forwards with very little with any experience in the three quarters particularly in the centres.
Having said all that I can't say who we could sign who may be available!
Hope I'm wrong and that if required Bateman is indeed a top class centre.

He managed to score 19 SL tries in 16 appearances outside Gelling so if he plays a full season this year he will be right on course for a 30+ try season. Gelling and Sarginson are an excellent combination IMO and when Thornley comes back we will have some depth with Gildart getting his chance. Centre is no worry to me

Sarg has shown how good he can be, the 4 Nations has given him the platform to be regarded as the best British centre there currently is out there. Gelling did well in the main last year and seems to be constantly improving. We as a club clearly think a lot of Gilldart give. The length of his new contract and chuck Thornley into the equation I am more than happy with our options at centre. If we were looking to strengthen anywhere the.personally I'd be looking to add experience up front in the Props, but only if an experienced veteran with leadership experience became available.

If Charnley is out for a spell again or by some fluke had to move to centre I'd be more than happy to see Manfredi get some more game time under his belt. Took his chances well last season and never failed to impress. He was outshone by Budgie's outstanding season so perhaps hasn't been given some of the recognition he deserves.

We start the season with 2 fit centres and a 17 year old albeit with excellent potential.

Thornley I think I am correct in saying hasn't played a full season yet due in part to a couple of major injuries. The guy has the physique but I am not always sure if he has the mental toughness to be regarded as a first class centre.

I am still not fully convinced on Gelling but this is perhaps my aversion to the Kiwi production line in centres where there is always significant brawn but vey little guile. I don't question Gelling's work rate but sometimes that in itself isn't enough.

I'm obviously in the minority ( of one !!) here but I think if we do get an injury to say Sarginson then this will have an adverse effect on the type of rugby we currently play. I'm confident that Sarginson will continue on his upward curve and I sincerely hope that Gildart can break into the first team for say ten to twelve games it's just the lack of robust options if we sustain an injury in this position that concerns me.

You are like a breath of fresh air on here my friend ,you talk a lot of sense. My only concern is if you ever develop a stammer when using your user name Itchy -----nal

Your worried about the 2nd row situation?





Our 11, 12 & 13 also happen to be the 11, 12 and 13 for England. We then have one of, if not the best, young 2nd rower in the country in Bateman and you are worried about our 2nd row options.

If injuries hit guys like Tautai and Patrick both have plenty of game time in the backrow.

I get the point you make but how many other teams have the depth at centre that we have? Sarg and Gelling, Thornley and if we pick up a knock Tomkins all of whome despite their age have picked up big game experience, before we even have to dip into the likes of Gildart.

Our main rivals can't boast that depth.

I on the other hand am not and never have been a fan of Secondrows who can play Prop and vise versa. It rarely seems to work and my concern is that we have a few too many of those. An out and out Prop I feel, if the right one becomes available would be where I would like to see us add to the squad.

Would have loved to see Ashton Simms at Wigan.

Turner, Percival and Jones as 3 centres. If they pick up knocks we've got Matty Dawson to cover at centre. Beyond him we've got LMS who won a Grand Final playing at centre. Then we've got Jack Ashworth who's an academy lad who's a centre. I think we can boast that depth tbh pal.

If we're sticking props at centre, we'll do fine with former England Centre Tony Clubb there.

I understand the point you make but I cannot see how the club can sign a recognised/high quality centre by offering them a backup spot, even assuming that there are centres available of that standard - it is probably one of the most sought after positions given the lack of quality in depth in this country. I suspect most SL clubs are in the same position having two or three good centres at most then having to look at youngsters or players playing out of position to cover.

Percival - sargînson
Turner - gelling
Jones - thornley

Dawson - Charnley/Burgess (played there numerous times at academy & u19 level) j Tomkins (who's also won a GF playing centre) & Bateman
(Silly argument but you started it) LMS - tony clubb (who's played internationals at centre).

Ashworth - Gildart

I think we're pretty well off and wouldn't swap our "depth" and options for any other clubs.

If and I know it is a big if a quality centre became available I would have Gelling and Thornley as the back up.
I totally agree that there is a dearth of quality centres partly due I think to the general thought that it's ok to play players out of position to cover this role. We wouldn't do this with a half back or a loose forward but all teams seem to do it consistently with the centre position.
Maybe if coaches looked at developing more centres as a specialist role rather than concentrating on bulk, impact players, prop come second rowers and "taking the ball in" we may see a more balanced approach to squads and style of play.
Rant over

.
A good debate which only makes February seem a long way off!

Tierney
Manfredi
Thornley
Gildart
AN Other
Hampshire
Powell
Mossop
Tomkins
Dudson
Tautai
Patrick
Bateman

Subs
Sutton
Lloyd
Greenwood
Farrell

Sure I've missed some off, but that's not a bad reserve team is it? Most have reasonable super league experience, and there are a few internationals in there too.

Lever can play prop or in the back row and Doran can play in the halves and hooker to be added to that list.

Fair play, i'd forgotten about Clubb. But he's never won a Grand Final at centre..





I'm not saying you should swap if you was ever given chance, I was simply replying to the claim that your rivals don't have the depth you boast, when in actual fact we have similar levels of depth at centre as you've show here yourself. I'd also forgotten about Matty Fleming who's been promoted to the first team squad this year, as Gildart has for you.

Percival - Sarginson
Turner - Gelling
Jones - Thornley
Dawson - Charnley
LMS - Clubb (I'll agree it's daft but someone earlier on the thread was on about Bateman when he's only played that one game against us at centre?)
Ashworth - Bateman
Fleming - Gildart

You seriously compare Dawson to Charnley???

You seem to have missed comparisons with Burgess and J Tomkins from your reply?

I'm worried about second row cover not the best case scenario. You need three to start and one on the bench, which means we're borrowing one of our four starting props straight away if Lockers gets injured (likely to happen quite a bit) or one of the others (bound to happen over the course of the season) or we're down to throwing in Lever/C.Farrell who are more or less debutants. I don't really buy that Tautai could get by in the back row either, he doesn't look nearly mobile enough.

Surely Gildart needs to play a few games at Super League level and prove himself before being dubbed as the "best young centre in the game?"

The step up from 19's to Super League is astronomical; Gildart has done nothing yet.

Burgess is an out and out winger IMO, he's never played as centre at Super League level has he? The lads that haven't played at Super League level are out and out centres so i've included them. Fair play Tomkins though, but upon his return from Union he's done nothing to make me envious at second row, never mind centre to make me envious of your obviously unrivaled depth.



Well Charnley is a winger for me, Dawson is a centre/winger. I could just as easily include Makinson instead who's probably played as many games at Super League level at centre as Charnley and was a centre at academy level. I can't comment on whether Charnley was, I don't know on that matter.


Still, it wasn't an argument of who's got better options at centre as we've both got decent options and better than most of the league (even if you have Gelling

), it was more of me replying to someone saying you've got unrivaled depth, which i've show you haven't. You just keep including different players who've covered at centre during games so i'm doing the same.