Unlike most Wigan fans I am torn about Phil Bailey.

For me he isn't quick/fast enough to be a centre, plus often has trouble finding his winger, I was all for playing him in the SR, but there he proved to be not strong enough to cause much of a threat in attack.

So basically not good enough for either position IMO if I'm honest. This combined with the fact that he's a Aussie, means he's taking up an overseas spot, if we're going to import, lets make them good imports to compliment a ENGLISH/WIGAN based team. He's also 'supposedly on a good wage' this is another factor against him.

BUT...

On Saturday night Bailey once again returned to the centre and did a good job, he scored and was defensively sound for the entire game. We've done the 'merry-go-round' with Goulding and Phelps and were back to Bailey cos he's simply better than the other two over all. We looked far better with him the centres than we have for some time.

If it weren't for Phil who else could cover so well? Pryce? Unfit? Injured? lacks experience in the centres? Goulding/Phelps doesn't work.
Hansen/J Tomkins/Hock won't do the as good of a job as Bailey.

He's been around a bit too, a cool relaxed head which is need with such a young squad, not an old man, but someone who has a clear intelligence and can read the game well enough to play in the backs or the pack.

Has anyone ever head Bailey moan? Or wanna go back to Oz? i've not. He's here week in week out never a bad thing to say about the club or the country.

Over all I would have to let him go to make way for a new centre. We already have good cover in the backrow. His quota spot and cap would come in well.

Thoughts?

Aye I never liked him as a centre when he first came and thought he'd do well in the second row, then he wasn't much cop there either, but last week he did a good job at centre by all accounts so we should leave him there and see how he goes on v Bradford, he should be better defensively then Goulding and Phelps, hopefully Pryce will be pushing for the position though, but long term I see us getting rid of Mathers and signing a centre next year. I can't find the player contracts on Bilko's site to check whether Mathers is coming off contract though.

I know he's well liked and respected by a lot of the younger players, has a very good attitude at training and is a good organiser/talker.

Does that make him good enough, probably not, but until we get someone better, then hell do for me.


There are two other Aussies I would release before him for next season (Smith and Phelps)

Why wait till next season Rogues i would get rid now. Lets put it one way there here to do a job there not learning there trade they are experienced players and are crap. Lets put it one way i am an engineer and if i kept messing jobs up week in week out then i would be sacked why cant this happen to Rugby players who are just not performing to the standard Wigan Rugby expect.

oh and piggy can go too !

I'm also very disappointed in Riddell to date. Especially considering her was our 'big name' signing for this season.

But without doubt we need to give him more game time before we judge. Maybe if he hasn't picked up around 10-12 games then I'll agree. But there is rumour (only rumour) that he's carrying a knock.

I would keep Bailey in the centres myself as he did little wrong last Saturday imo.

Riddell's 4 games in, carrying a knock and he's already better than Higham. Give him time.

The guy's fairly solid on the pitch but never more than a workhorse. That he's gone from centre to 2nd row and now back to centre to shore up the defence is a little frustrating because we're now employing a defensive player in place of what could/should be a more attacking player.

However, we can only use the players we have.



Smith's been disappointing this season; we all saw the crispness of his passes when he came in last season, it's such a shame he's so weak in defence. I definitely think he'll be gone at the end of the year, whether he wants to stay or not.

Because there are contracts in place and if we let them go now they would have to be paid up and they would still count on the salary cap, unless another club was wiling to take up their contracts.

I disagree about Riddell, I thought he had a decent game on Saturday.

Agreed.

I have always liked the idea of trying Gareth Hock in the centre.

We have lots of back-rowers, and Hock's best work is done when running out wide.

He is big, quick, strong, and probably busts more tackles than anyone else. I also think his off-loading game could be better utilised out wide, as it could be more effective with less traffic around him.

Just so long as our halfbacks support him; hopefully if Sam T gets a run in the team then this'll be the case.

we will have to agree to disagree on that one Mr Rogues i thought he was far to slow and lacked any ideas but thats my opinion.

Riddell has offered next to nothing so far this season. Lets be honest.

Hock in the centres?

I'd like to see that given a go. Hock v Senior, bring it on!

Wigan fans are a great example of judging players too early and i include myself in that.

Lets look at Pat Richards as an example, dropped to the Academy and nearly sold to Wakefield. And look at him now.

Riddel is having a tough time getting us to playing in the UK and that can be for a number of reasons. Lets just see how he goes over the next few months.

True.

I have to admit that I thought Pat was a total waste of space when he first came over

And you would have been right, he was clueless in his first season. But look how quickly form can change.

I simply said Riddell has offered nothing SO FAR. Which I stand by.

Richards was thrust into a terrible team, lots going on behind the scenes and played at centre, a position he wasn't use to.

I'm pretty sure Riddell has played 9 before



But yes, things do take time.

I've heard that he's quite nifty on the guitar. Rock on Phil!

Seems to pretty much sum him up, a model pro.

Personally, I feel he'll do much better as a centre with Roberts outside him.

Think back to the last few seasons and how flat Calderwood always was compared to his centre. While I would be the first to say Calders didn't get enough ball, it doesn't help if a winger is to flat.

Watch Roberts. He generally stands a yard or so further back from his centre, allowing the centre a bigger window of opportunity to decide what to do with the ball and also means he can cut in if required with a reduced risk of collision or obstruction.

Bailey's trademark offload at Cronulla was exactly like the Gidley-Gardner combination of whereby Bailey would aim to get on the outside shoulder of the opposing centre. If the wing man doesn't commit, he will try to fend and go. If the winger does commit, he will flick the ball back one handed to his winger, having made the gap.

I seem to recall a couple of these on Saturday, one of which put Roberts on a 20 metre break from inside our own half. If he can do that in our opponents 20 or 30 then the fullback won't get across and it's try time.

A bit long winded I know but what I'm trying to say in basic terms is that after just one game there are inklings that he and Roberts will work well together. This isn't necessarily because Bailey has suddenly become a better centre but because a winger of Roberts' quality can help to bring out the best in Bailey. This is similar to a class centre in Gidley bringing out the best in Gardner.

Bailey seemed to be originally moved to the backrow to make way for Goulding, who at the time was showing lots of potential. Goulding (maybe foolishly) was giving the number 3 shirt and a 1st team spot.

Overtime Goulding doesn't seem to be working out, Phelps who was brought in as a utility player across the backs also isn't really working out in the centres, so we're back to Bailey there.

Therefore Bailey is proven to be dependable there, you never know, with Roberts outside him we could have a solid 2-5, something I feel we've not had for a long long time.

That sums it up nicely. Not a world beater, but alot more steady than alot of our other players and the best option we have in the centre currently.

Muppet

No need.

I'm not a great one for stats at any times, esp so early in the season but if you wanted to take that route you will find plenty hookers out performing him. Compare him to Randall, Diskin and Roby and it's just embarrassing. The most important issue, though, is that we have 2 players patently outplaying him IMO (no-one would argue that we have at least 1). He is our "big" signing (in every way) this season and irrespective of if it is due to injury (how convenient if true) or not he is in appalling physical condition (not compared to me, I might add

). He was blowing out of his behind after 16 minutes last time out and it simply isn't good enough, particularly when we have other obvious options.

He has had time to shake off the mystery injury and/or improve his physical condition. He had better step up big time or he will be next under Nobby's microscope.