The Pies have taken home games to other grounds.

It Toronto are improving ground facilities even you should be able to see positives in that.

It's not there ground though! They will turn out similar to us most likely.
Let's put it this way, had it been our game that was moved then folk on here would be up in arms, especially if they had already bought a flight.
Even you can see the negatives in that

“Disgusting. All the good work being ruined,” John Knox commented on the Toronto Wolfpack Fans Facebook group page.

Notice that the Halifax game has probably moved as Well, fax saying most likely not being played in canada

'tis my recollection that the biggest "dummy spit" was Sky moving a game day in France for Quins v Catalans.....meaning that about 30 or so fans were actually in the air heading back to London when the game was kicking off.......some bloke called fax in the gutter or some other like-name was invited to Parliament for his aggressive stance towards Murdoch and the RFL thinking that they own the game when in fact it is actually us fans that own and pay for the game.......I do often wonder what happened to that stalwart of reality?
Toronto bled cash last year and will do so this......if they don't go up then it'll soon become apparent that the "rich blokes" toy isn't worth the investment.....I've had reports from Toronto residents that what we perceive here isn't actually what's happening there......8k gates were nothing like 8k and their core support is in the 3 hundreds......with an awful lot of freebies and favours being dished out.......it's an expensive habit this RL thing....just ask Dave

and North Americans (other than college students) like to sit in comfortable surrounds when watching sport......not wooden benches and drinking warm ale from plastic in a tent....

Wonder how the marketing and selling the game is going down in Toronto at the moment?
I do remember someone on here having a bit of a dig at me when I suggested that the claimed 7k in a 9k capacity stadium looked strangely false when you saw the TV pictures, think it was suggested that I hadn't taken into account the folk in the beer tent.
So 13 home games planned, potential 7 not going to be at there home ground, as they say SELL IT SELL IT

The "selling it" is less important this year as there is a massive reliance on getting to SL........I applaud Eric Perez and his passion, but there is a niggling feeling that I have that they really do believe that visits from Wigan and Leeds will draw crowds and as London well knows, sticking posts in the ground and announcing KO times isn't a viable marketing strategy......and we averaged 10k in our first season which was down to a great number of away fans being curious and ex-pat norvuners.
As for "crowd counting"......I will always take announced crowds at face value.......if they are fibbing then the reality is that they are only fibbing to themselves........and the reduction in their "home" games this year points to the sponsor tightening the belt due to lack of increased ticket sales to Toronto....are the wheels starting to come off?????

Not sure how "selling it" is less important this year! I would have thought building on last year would still need selling, or are you suggesting it's job done? By that logic we should still be drawing 10k crowds.
So year 2 and suggesting sponsors belt tightening, does not build confidence in the product on sale.
What actually worries me, magic weekend in Newcastle they play Toronto Toulouse game and say it's about drawing folk in, where from? Who are the extra fans that will turn up that will not go anyhow! Why are they not trying to look at proper expansion of the game closer to home, Newcastle thunder facilities are excellent yet they struggle, with poor gate numbers.

Not at all.....the job of marketing is never "done", but I believe that dishing out free tickets week in week out, with very few people actually paying has probably made the owner realise that he's not going to get much return on his investment until they are hosting clubs like Wigan or Leeds.....clubs that they can leverage to market games. Perez will continue to do the rounds on local media and pepper the facebook page, I suspect that free tickets will continue to be distributed like confetti and the beer tents and hot dog guns will all be back for 2018......but I have no doubt that they are hemorrhaging cash at an alarming rate at present and are mistakenly of the belief that the SL cheque is a silver bullet!


AirTransat will have hoped to have filled planes on their route, with paying fans travelling to watch their team in a new city. £440 return from Manchester to Toronto flying out June 8th and back on the 11th...there are 346 seats on their planes, so forgetting first/business, they would expect to pocket £150,000 and change from the 2 flights......I've heard reports from "away" fans who traveled last year of planes flying less than half full.

Your Squad and support group will number probably 23, so that's £10k a visiting side in free seats...I reckon there were about 20 trips made by either the visitors or the wolfpack in 2017......so let's call it £200,000........so for AirTransat to break even, they would have needed 500 fans from Oxford, Hemel, Gloucester, York, Hunslet, coventry or Barrow (2), Doncaster, Newcastle or whitehaven.....and that's just to BREAK EVEN.



If it's on TV then it'll have a crowd that makes us v Catalans look busy. I don't see the logic in it myself......but logical thinking isn't associated with the RFL or the Wolfpack.....they claim an 8k average but wigan, with a 14k average managed to lose cash last year and those 14k were paying for tickets

You make it sound like air transit are reliant on Toronto Wolfpack for there revenue stream! Trust me they have been in the airline business long enough to happily survive without TW money. Air Transat didn't need any fans from any club to break even, they just needed there normal passenger flow. TW lodged £300k with the RFL last year for away team travel and accommodation costs, that was part of the deals entering the league

:2n4wva4u
Yip......and as a way to reduce other "outgoings" AitrTransat were on board as [TRUMP MODE:2n4wva4ua massive sponsor...the biggest ever in the history of the game.......yet suddenly, rather than play games at an alternate venue whilst lamport is being rejigged, they are essentially playing games in Blocks, which gives them a massive advantage...........they should be home and away like everyone else and if it's too cold, then they should find an indoor arena.......letting them start with a block of games in the UK, then finish by hosting teams fresh of the plane is just Biased.......sorry, but it is!

As for the route being half empty, then it's obviously a loss making route for them hence the ability to offer "free" or heavily discounted seats for travelling teams the only cost then is the extra fuel burn which using conservative figures is going to be about 500kg of fuel each way which in the grand scheme is nothing, trust me when they start filling that route they will start paying.
So actually we are agreed then dog, TW is a rich mans plaything who will be around as long as mr Perez puts his Money in

But they are a development team dog! Should they not be allowed to do that without anyone complaining? Or are you saying it gives them an unfair advantage? Am confused now, in another thread I do believe you said London Broncos should not be bound by the overseas player rule, would that not effectively give LB an advantage over teams they play that were bound by overseas player rule.
Actually in my opinion they should play home and away the same as everyone else, if it's not possible due to weather then it's a bit of an inconcieved plan, bit like having world ski champs in the alps in august. It will be interesting if/when they are inserted into SL if the other SL teams will be as willing to bend to there demands.

I did.....and I think I also said that we should get a minimum 25% compensation of the cap too. Toronto having a squad that is "very close to being full cap"....<s> UNDER THE CAP MY 'ARRIS<s> and being able to field a team full of aussies isn't my gripe....but them playing the last 12 regular games next year at Home whilst the opponents will be just off the plane is.......

But you are still suggesting that we should be allowed an advantage over other teams but other teams shouldnt.
As for the away teams just getting off the plane, nothing stopping them travelling earlier! They just pay for it

Yes....we are running an academy and we will produce more players but it will take time......and until such time we should be allowed play as many ANZACS as we need.......and more cash because living in London ain't living in Leigh!














...now I know you're just looking for an argument!

Toronto came to us and already in year 1 we let them play 4/5 on the trot away....not that's more with the last dozen at hoe and on the trot......it'll be like bige-watching a netflix show for their 300 or so beer-loving fans......

Am never after an argument just healthy debate! The fact is if Toronto were to be doing home and away alternating the costs would be extortionate, I doubt even air transat would stomach that deal. We could get into that discussion of what day broncos travelled to away games, night before and overnight in hotels or travel up the morning before a game! Does it really make that much difference to how they perform on the park? For me I would suggest very little.
Crossing the Atlantic is slightly different I agree but it's a 4 hr time difference so a 1630 local kick off is a 2030 uk time kick off, simple for any club travelling stay on UK time for sleep patterns hey ho no jet lag. So 7 and a bit hrs sat in an airplane with a night to recover or 4 hrs sat in a coach on the m6 m1 with a couple if hours.
For the good of expansion it's not that hard

So? [uWe were assured[/u that they were cashed up and other teams wouldn't be adversely affected.......If it costs them or AirTransat loads then so what....their sponsorship deal [uwe were told[/u was massive.
I am not saying [uwe were told[/u lies, but I can only comment on what I see and that is a schedule skewed to suit the new side.......it could be argued that when the pitch was being worked on at Griffin Park, we could and should have just asked to play away games for 8 straight weeks then the end of the season with 8 Home games....it sure would have been easier to build a marketing momentum up. I'd imagine the flat earth brigade (some of whom are pro-Toronto but were anti-London??????) would have gone ballistic......and it would have bee added to the team full of aussies, extra payments and over the cap conspiracy theories that abounded back then........and....

.........[uwe're told[/u that all clubs are currently under the cap and it's managed "live"....I wonder what accounting software the Canadians are using

But they are a development side? Should the sport not be doing everything it can to ensure they succeed, you suggested they should bend the rules for london!!! Not sure how you can suggest one thing for us and then criticise efforts for others.
I actually don't disagree with you, they shouldn't be playing games in blocks, the pitch is artificial so should not be that adversely effected by the weather!! Their is sport played on it year round!
But the RFL in its wisdom are willing to bend to see them succeed. They did something for Catalans as well remember, and in the past I believe we had relaxed rules on overseas players, so hey that's how it is.
We have 35 plus years under our belt, we are not a development side anymore.

if its not on the floor you can't play on it!!

Wq you read any of the thread. Bad planning is bad planning!
If you start a business that relies on local support, building that support one year knowing that it's highly unlikely you can deliver the promised goods the following year is simply daft.

Or very clever

You're absolutely correct. They owe money everywhere including Kit Supplier, Car Rentals (Noble and his wife plus Vickers and the Rowley family all have nice cars in the UK for when they are here) Physio and Medical suppliers, other clubs for hospitality......the list goes on.

You also have the small matter of them having about 3 different companies set up in the UK with Perez and Argyle resigning only to be replaced by Noble on the first day the company was set up.

Add to that Adam Fogerty is hunting Perez down for double dealing antics against him you have quite a different picture being built.

It is fairly obvious they never once got anything like 7000 in that stadium, even the least observant guy in the World would have spotted the numbers in the stands didn't look anything close to even 4000 and having spoken to Perez several times I can assure you the guy is an absolute idiot off his head on Canabis most of the time and when not stoned he is like an angry little puppy walking around muttering 'we're f***ing Toronto' or other rubbish. I spoke to the guy who heads up Premier Sports in the UK at the RFL Championships dinner and he said the game day experience there was no different to Hunslet or Dewsbury other than some ridiculous people with a drum dressed in fancy dress and silly Wolf noises all through the game. They have beer tents, two open air stands and merchandise for sale from a trestle table under a gazebo.

And people thought the biggest challenge they faced this year was keeping the squad sober



Still they have a hot dog gun and are a breath of fresh air to the game. People need to wake up, they are all smoke and mirrors, why do you think Craig Hall left? Nothing like what he signed up for.

Very interesting post Monkey