Well known facts about the social element of big RU events, but it still has sod all to do with the transport infastructure

The transport infrastructure is relevant to Quins RL far more than it is to Quins RU because it doesn't fit neatly into a particular type of affluent local (West London) social scene. At a guess there are probably plenty of hardcore Quins RU fans who'll drag themselves half way round London to watch what's on the field (what's important to them), the social Quins RU fans I'm not so sure about.

I don't know if I'm missing the point here, but there seems to be some misconception about social rugby union attendees (I call them that as they don't go to watch the game - just to drink and talk).

On an average match, I would guess - purely from observation, no facts to back this up - that less than 10% fall into this category.

I think part of the problem is that there are no "local" derbies - home matches against Perpignan and Newport will never generate the same polarisation and support as Quins v L.Irish

or autumn international, the vast majority would not really be club supporters but "social" attendee's, and yup I was a Quins RU supporter in them days when the main games were against Bath and you stood on milk crates behind the sticks to get a good view

1.1 actually and its 0.8 miles from Twickenham Station to Twickenham Stoop

It's in west London which i know for a fact is the most congested part of the capital (yes i have proof of that)

Rubbish. I had to go to north-east London from souh-west London the other Saturday by car and it took 2 hours to do 24 miles. The first half of the journey through the "congested west of London" to 30 minutes. The remaining 12 miles to the north east to 90 minutes.

I have never seen traffic, road works and so many pointless red routes in my life and I have lived in south west London 21 years.


Why have red routes and then allow some parking? The cars just block the route. We followed a bus for two miles and not once did it go in to the red route bus lane because every few hundred yards there was a car parked in an allowable zone.

We all think sometime the RFL and our club mgmt can't organise themselves, well north east Londons traffic planners couldn't organise a glass of fine wine in a vineyard.

Rant over. Back to rugby.

Have read this thread with interest

Got to say I understand Gutterfax's frustration

Many many times I have read people post on these boards how their chairman/BOD/owner is a successful businessman and they know what they are doing

Unfortunatley running a proffessional sports club is totally different to setting up and building a business to make your fortune

It requires a completely different mindset

Lets face it to virtually all of them it is nothing more than an expensive hobby taken on via the heart rather than the head

They like us are actually fans and think that everybody ' thinks ' like us , ie have a winning team and people will want to pay to watch it

But that is the heart ruling the head

This is the reason I feel the RFL really need to do more either to educate the clubs and their owners or actually setting something up to help and show the clubs what to do

But they did!
The RFL marketed the Manly game, not the club. Result was, 6,000 fans with 4,000 odd that we haven't seen again since? As TNT were running a cheap offer on tickets and getting a commission on each one, somewhere, there is a database of these fans?

Sorry, but the club need a marketing professional in place now. Even if this means paying over the odds for someone on a temp basis, it is blatantly obvious that the club can't manage with the resources in place at the moment.
Someone who can centralise the data held by the club (email, post, telephone, ST holders and online ticket purchasers), manage the sending of offers, arranging for leaflet drops, booking small ads in the local press, organising the day to day activity that would raise awareness.

With regard to the future, we have approximately 30 home games until the next licence applications will be assessed and we are currently 1,700 away per game from the 40% figure.

This target of 5,000 was never going to be easy to achieve, but with every passing week, it is getting even harder.

I'd question whether 5k was ever a realistic target anyway.

40% is the figure we would need to achieve 1 point.
Given that we ticked a load of other boxes, I would be suprised if we weren't asked to give assurances on crowds. I would have thought that all clubs that failed on certain points would have been expected to make in-roads towards attaining those points next time.

Simple financial common sense would seem to point to any club needing its supporters to grow, not shrink.

Also, if our average this year is currently 3,224, then this would point towards 750+ home fans missing last Saturday. This should be a major concern to the club. Was it simply because so many other things were on (Lions, England RU, The Derby, England wendyball) or is it something else?

I know that crowds are not the be all and end all, but surely, given it is the stated aim of the GM to increase attendances, the current downward trend is worrying.

BTW, if we had managed to get 10% of the Manly crowd to come back on a regular basis, that would have added 600 to the average figure so far......

Of course "...it is something else...", Celtic don't have the pulling power of Saints, Leeds or Wigan. All clubs used to expect their lowest crowd of the season when we visited or Leigh / Widnes/ Cas / Salford were getting hammered in the past and sitting at the foot of the table. Leigh a few years back would have been a dead cert for 2000 at the Stoop/Brentford etc. It is the nature of sport and sports fans - the best draws the extra bums on seats, but the die hard core fans turn up even if the team were demonstrating the art of tomato planting.


Yes the marketing is poor, yes they need somebody in place - but up to Paul Brown's illness the club was starting to make some strides (in my humble view)- since last summer though the club have been hamstrung. Maybe, in hindsight, they should have got in a temp / contract marketing guru to keep things going. May be they tried and everyone they approached said "...Na, no thanks..".

We don't know, we don't attend the board meetings. Please lets just give it a rest on this subject and let PB get on with it. If come December it is another shambles then I for one will agree with you all on this matter.

Really? Where? Can't believe you are using that as an excuse tbh.

No I am not using it as an excuse, the club had a clear plan under Paul Brown. Communications were improving. The club were tying up players, getting ahead of the recruitment curve - and we are seeing the benefit of that this season on the pitch with a stable squad.

Things seemed very professional. Then bang, "...sorry guys got to go - not well...". Unfortunately Boss Hogg could not grasp and maintain the plan until somebody better suited came along.

What happened to Paul Brown, did he recover? Not a jot about the guy.

Most businesses / clubs would struggle to survive with the kind of cr&p the club has had to deal with in recent times.

Marketing of Quins RL is like the MP's expenses scandal to most of you out there. your like the Daily Telegraph squeezing a bit more and bit more out of a boring subject.

Yes we know it needs to improve, now let the club get on with it.

Actually, I think the club has less time to get things moving than the stated 30 home games. A lot less. The new licences will come into effect season 2012, so that means the RFL will have to announce who has won the 14 (or maybe 16?) licences by mid 2011 at the latest, otherwise promoted teams will have no time whatsoever to get up and running. Going by the previous licencing process that means clubs will have to submit their applications six months before that, ie end of 2010 / start of 2011.

Which means that the club has next season and the remains of this to demonstrate that it is capable of hitting the targets set. In other words less than 20 games.

get on with what


Seriously, if this season (or even the last 2 months) is anything to go by, then the club have no clear and defined plan. To put up that rasing attendances is PB's main aim on the website points to the club being aware of the problem. It's just that a drop in average attendances this year at the half way stage of the season isn't really a good start is it?
I fully appreciate that I bang on and on and on and on about this, but let's face it, the development of future players and the community work being done, whilst great, won't pay the bills. Bums on seats are what will make the club successful in the long run.......and as the players and coach have started mentioning it, the time for empty promises is over.

We're not going to get the social scene down just yet.
"hey guys do you want to sit in an empty stadium with no atmosphere, watching a game we dont know and players we've never heard about, at the same time as England are playing on telly.

We need bums on seats and need to get the locals involved.
I dont know if this has legs, but it would generate some coverage (free marketing) but has the club tried to get the other Richmond clubs on board, Richmond, Welsh, Hampton FC etc to offer a borough season ticket that grants you unreserved entry to all games all year?

Good idea plus London Scottish, Rosslyn Park and Ealing for the West London Rugby ticket!

Perhaps the removal of the seats from the South Stand witnessed on Saturday is an attempt to meet the figure ?

some of you are harbingers of doom, no matter how many thousand attend a game at the stoop it is certainly better than not having a team to support. just think, those who attended the game wouldn't have watched a game of rugby league if their was no team in the capital, quins are as vital to our game as saints, leeds, w***n etc etc etc etc.

i agree, the only problem i see was why it took so long to get a London club involved.
Eventually some midland clubs will get involved and link it all up and all these Flatcapper anti expansionist will eventually die out

The net tube station to Brentford (South Ealing) was a lot further away than the station at Twickenham, and it was a less pleasant walk along a busy road with a massive junction to negotiate if walking. On Sundays Brentford train station was served by one train per hour that departed a few minutes after the end of the match, meaning you'd just miss it unless you left early or were an Olympic 800 metres medallist.

Twickenham has trains into London every few minutes on every day (you're unlikely to wait more than ten minutes at any time) and they link up with the Underground network at Richmond. The ground itself is far better and it's easier to get to for many people, and you don't have to worry about waiting another hour or finding an alternative route if you just miss one train.

i think that the "flatcappers" are finally coming round to the idea of a team in the capitol, at least quins are on the up unlike some heartland clubs...

Forgive my poor punctuation on that and i was slighty unclear Twick St to the stoop is not far i wasn't comparing distance of SEailing and Twick St.
More the lack of buses from the busier parts of London to Twickers and the fact that Twickers Station isn't part of the TfL network therefore more expensive to travel.

Why would you want to get a bus from busier parts when the tube to Richmond or train to Twickers is fine?

Oh and Twickers is on the TFL network, you can buy thru routing from any tube staion, travelcards and passes work just fine too.