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| TK apparently wants people to sign up for the monthly membership thingy eh?
Cheapest option (terrace) for the 2014 season at Barnet FC prices is £29 a month with a corner/end of stand seat £34 or Mid Stand seat and easy access to bar £39. The walk-up prices are £16, £19 £22 respectively.
April, June, August and September (not withstanding CC matches) have 1 game each so I can see either a drop in attendances or a drop in revenue for TK.
8 Month season and a mid-stand seated membership is £312.00. Frugal and Yorkshire Born fans could cancel for the 1 game months and save, reducing the cost for 13 SL games to £244 if they walk up and pay for those 1 game months.
8 month season and a terrace membership is £232 or £180 for those from east of the Pennines.
8 month season top end comes to £592 or £752 depending on how much curry you want and how badly you want to heckle the players 
So, the cheapest way to watch the Broncos in 2014 is with a terrace membership pass that you cancel and reactivate as the season goes on at £180 a pop.
Personally, I would still walk up and pay, making attendance decisions on the morning of the games. £22 for a good seat near the bar is quite acceptable, but given TK's rigid pricing plans, there'll be little room for BOGOF offers in the Grabone universe without his Barnet fans getting y!
ST Revenue at the club halved between 2008 and 2012. Based on the average being £150 in 2012, we had less than 500 and Gus had another 12 months to pare down that number........good luck with that TK.....I suspect you are going to need it!
[urlhttp://www.barnetfc.com/news/article/bees-membership-scheme-814533.aspx[/url |
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Frankly TK can stuff his £752! I could almost get a Hammers season ticket for that sort of money! I'll be walking up to a few games this year - I know the ST prices have been ridiculously low compared to football these past few seasons but I'm not committing until I see how this new set up works out. With DH and Gus still in place it just looks like same **** different venue!
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Actually the membership thing is geared towards special offers and the club have already made numerous since the season began - Kids for a quid, half price for some midweek games etc. Also the early bird offer is still in effect I believe so we only pay £22 a month for a seat in the big stand - even iff you sign up now.
The question surely is will the Broncos be part of the BFC membership? If so I don't think too many Barnet fans will be getting 'y' about free rugby getting included in the membership. If not then it's as you were. No big deal.
The membership thing is new and the club are still finding their feet with it. Would hope that out of goodwill they will at least make a good offer to have an inclusive Rugby/Football package. I guess we'll see.
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| Quote ="aspouea"Actually the membership thing is geared towards special offers and the club have already made numerous since the season began - Kids for a quid, half price for some midweek games etc. Also the early bird offer is still in effect I believe so we only pay £22 a month for a seat in the big stand - even iff you sign up now.
The question surely is will the Broncos be part of the BFC membership? If so I don't think too many Barnet fans will be getting 'y' about free rugby getting included in the membership. If not then it's as you were. No big deal.
The membership thing is new and the club are still finding their feet with it. Would hope that out of goodwill they will at least make a good offer to have an inclusive Rugby/Football package. I guess we'll see.'"
after 6 months, nay 7, of negotiations, it's hard to fathom that TK hadn't put together a pricing model for release.....it's fast approaching a week since the announcement and nada, nothing, not a bean!
BTW, what's the club shop like? |
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You claim to know how much Broncos season ticket is on incorrect information and a complete lack of understanding of how the scheme works.
The original early bird pricing was retained and has been extremely good value. I pay £29pm for the top seats with my 2 teenage kids costing me £2 each. So my total cost for access to 40 games is under £400 for the year.
You really think that because Gutterfax says £752 then that's what it will be? Think about it, Tk wants to attract a crowd, not scare them off.
Let me give you the breakdown of how the membership works
www.barnetfc.com/tickets/memberships/
I am certain that the Broncos games will be sold as an add on to the membership packages in the same way as the following
Gym Membership £20pm
Car park £10pm
Away Travel £38pm |
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You claim to know how much Broncos season ticket is on incorrect information and a complete lack of understanding of how the scheme works.
The original early bird pricing was retained and has been extremely good value. I pay £29pm for the top seats with my 2 teenage kids costing me £2 each. So my total cost for access to 40 games is under £400 for the year.
You really think that because Gutterfax says £752 then that's what it will be? Think about it, Tk wants to attract a crowd, not scare them off.
Let me give you the breakdown of how the membership works
www.barnetfc.com/tickets/memberships/
I am certain that the Broncos games will be sold as an add on to the membership packages in the same way as the following
Gym Membership £20pm
Car park £10pm
Away Travel £38pm | |
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Looks like prices could be a sticking point, monthly membership he is having a laugh can't see me going 180 mile round trip to the gym! Nor can I see many away travel games if they are on the usual Friday night. Who ever is doing the pricing will need to take in last years price @100 and the state of the team in terms of strength.
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tbf when TK first announced the scheme the support went ballistic but you will struggle to find a Barnet fan who is now opposed to it. Our average number of season ticket holders used to be 500-600 but 1100 have now signed up for the membership scheme.
I suggest you wait and see what is offered but I'm pretty confident it is unlikely to be much dearer than last year, if at all.
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Just thought for the last few years the kids season tickets have all had away vouchers in the price it will be interesting to see what happens at the Hive
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| Quote ="meliferra"You claim to know how much Broncos season ticket is on incorrect information and a complete lack of understanding of how the scheme works.'"
well, I wouldn't have to ing trawl the internet and scour the Barnet website to investigate the potential cost for 2014 if the Club had a clue. Less than 500 ST holders in 2012........and less again in 2013, so rather than let a little old keyboard warrior like me get things wrong, why not at least communicate to last years customers and let them know the prices for next year......unless of course TK hasn't given it any thought 
As for early bird schemes being extended and special offers....nothing like a good discounting policy to set the bar  ....1,800 average for Barnet FC this year...we're going to fit right in |
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I didnt have to trawl anything.
Main website www.barnetfc.com
click on tickets.
Is that really so hard? Alternatively you could have asked rather than make assumptions on outdated information.
This is the first year of the membership and the club adopted the same methodology as a season ticket on the membership with the early bird concept. Supporters like me contacted the club and explained why this wouldn't make financial sense. Basically after you had gone three games into the season then the full membership worked out dearer than paying on the door so they agreed to retain the original membership prices. Truth of this is almost nobody buys season tickets at full wack, if you are that late then most just pay on the door because there is little value to be had.
You probably don't know (or care) about our history but basically we went from 500 avg attendance to reaching the 3rd tier (League 1) with 3-4000 avg attendances bankrolled by a wealthy chairman (Stan Flashman) who then pulled the plug without warning, we lost all our players and had to rebuild almost from scratch. TK has been slowly putting the infrastructure in place so we are self-sufficent and while this hasn't yet been converted to promotion most can see the benefits of what he has done and that we are no longer reliant on someone bailing us out. If we are successful this season then crowds will go up, if not they will go down. Id prefer the former but I'm realistic enough to know it may not be so. As an aside we have sold nearly 4000 tickets for our next home game so it's not all bad.
I'd rather be optimistic and suggest that the 2 teams now playing at the Hive would look to support each other and so boost attendances for both parties but hey, what do I know. |
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I didnt have to trawl anything.
Main website www.barnetfc.com
click on tickets.
Is that really so hard? Alternatively you could have asked rather than make assumptions on outdated information.
This is the first year of the membership and the club adopted the same methodology as a season ticket on the membership with the early bird concept. Supporters like me contacted the club and explained why this wouldn't make financial sense. Basically after you had gone three games into the season then the full membership worked out dearer than paying on the door so they agreed to retain the original membership prices. Truth of this is almost nobody buys season tickets at full wack, if you are that late then most just pay on the door because there is little value to be had.
You probably don't know (or care) about our history but basically we went from 500 avg attendance to reaching the 3rd tier (League 1) with 3-4000 avg attendances bankrolled by a wealthy chairman (Stan Flashman) who then pulled the plug without warning, we lost all our players and had to rebuild almost from scratch. TK has been slowly putting the infrastructure in place so we are self-sufficent and while this hasn't yet been converted to promotion most can see the benefits of what he has done and that we are no longer reliant on someone bailing us out. If we are successful this season then crowds will go up, if not they will go down. Id prefer the former but I'm realistic enough to know it may not be so. As an aside we have sold nearly 4000 tickets for our next home game so it's not all bad.
I'd rather be optimistic and suggest that the 2 teams now playing at the Hive would look to support each other and so boost attendances for both parties but hey, what do I know. | |
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| Club Owner | 20966 | No
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Quote ="meliferra"I didnt have to trawl anything.
Main website www.barnetfc.com
click on tickets.
Is that really so hard? Alternatively you could have asked rather than make assumptions on outdated information.
This is the first year of the membership and the club adopted the same methodology as a season ticket on the membership with the early bird concept. Supporters like me contacted the club and explained why this wouldn't make financial sense. Basically after you had gone three games into the season then the full membership worked out dearer than paying on the door so they agreed to retain the original membership prices. Truth of this is almost nobody buys season tickets at full wack, if you are that late then most just pay on the door because there is little value to be had.
You probably don't know (or care) about our history but basically we went from 500 avg attendance to reaching the 3rd tier (League 1) with 3-4000 avg attendances bankrolled by a wealthy chairman (Stan Flashman) who then pulled the plug without warning, we lost all our players and had to rebuild almost from scratch. TK has been slowly putting the infrastructure in place so we are self-sufficent and while this hasn't yet been converted to promotion most can see the benefits of what he has done and that we are no longer reliant on someone bailing us out. If we are successful this season then crowds will go up, if not they will go down. Id prefer the former but I'm realistic enough to know it may not be so. As an aside we have sold nearly 4000 tickets for our next home game so it's not all bad.
I'd rather be optimistic and suggest that the 2 teams now playing at the Hive would look to support each other and so boost attendances for both parties but hey, what do I know.'"
Cool story Bro.
Here are some FACTS for you regarding your new best buddies.
Your new tenants/ground sharers receive about £1.5 million a year from the SL TV deal and in 2012, spent a total of £2.7 MILLION on their first team squad and £524,000 on Coaches.....the Owner sunk £2.2 million in to cover their shortfall.
2013 figures are not available, but I assure you that they are just as ugly!
Bottom line is that a team of 2nd rate players (we are shopping for cast offs and loaners) will finish dead set bottom in 2014, hardly inspiring either new or existing fans to pay £16 or more to witness weekly hammerings. TK will not see any benefit of future in having a championship club with 800 fans in 2015 and London Broncos will move on again.
Basically, It costs a minimum of £4,000,000 to run a SL club. £2,500,000 of that needs to be generated by the club itself with the rest from SKY money. In 2012, the club raised £543,000.
On your last point......we've shared/rented with Charlton, Harlequins, Charlton, Brentford and Harlequins over 18 seasons. When it comes to cross fan cultivation, I wouldn't be holding my breath  |
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Quote ="meliferra"I didnt have to trawl anything.
Main website www.barnetfc.com
click on tickets.
Is that really so hard? Alternatively you could have asked rather than make assumptions on outdated information.
This is the first year of the membership and the club adopted the same methodology as a season ticket on the membership with the early bird concept. Supporters like me contacted the club and explained why this wouldn't make financial sense. Basically after you had gone three games into the season then the full membership worked out dearer than paying on the door so they agreed to retain the original membership prices. Truth of this is almost nobody buys season tickets at full wack, if you are that late then most just pay on the door because there is little value to be had.
You probably don't know (or care) about our history but basically we went from 500 avg attendance to reaching the 3rd tier (League 1) with 3-4000 avg attendances bankrolled by a wealthy chairman (Stan Flashman) who then pulled the plug without warning, we lost all our players and had to rebuild almost from scratch. TK has been slowly putting the infrastructure in place so we are self-sufficent and while this hasn't yet been converted to promotion most can see the benefits of what he has done and that we are no longer reliant on someone bailing us out. If we are successful this season then crowds will go up, if not they will go down. Id prefer the former but I'm realistic enough to know it may not be so. As an aside we have sold nearly 4000 tickets for our next home game so it's not all bad.
I'd rather be optimistic and suggest that the 2 teams now playing at the Hive would look to support each other and so boost attendances for both parties but hey, what do I know.'"
Cool story Bro.
Here are some FACTS for you regarding your new best buddies.
Your new tenants/ground sharers receive about £1.5 million a year from the SL TV deal and in 2012, spent a total of £2.7 MILLION on their first team squad and £524,000 on Coaches.....the Owner sunk £2.2 million in to cover their shortfall.
2013 figures are not available, but I assure you that they are just as ugly!
Bottom line is that a team of 2nd rate players (we are shopping for cast offs and loaners) will finish dead set bottom in 2014, hardly inspiring either new or existing fans to pay £16 or more to witness weekly hammerings. TK will not see any benefit of future in having a championship club with 800 fans in 2015 and London Broncos will move on again.
Basically, It costs a minimum of £4,000,000 to run a SL club. £2,500,000 of that needs to be generated by the club itself with the rest from SKY money. In 2012, the club raised £543,000.
On your last point......we've shared/rented with Charlton, Harlequins, Charlton, Brentford and Harlequins over 18 seasons. When it comes to cross fan cultivation, I wouldn't be holding my breath | |
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| Quote ="meliferra"
I'd rather be optimistic and suggest that the 2 teams now playing at the Hive would look to support each other and so boost attendances for both parties but hey, what do I know.'"
Genuine synergy is to be hoped for. A shared membership might work in that regard.
PS
Don't mind GF. He's a fully paid up member of The Stoop Hard-on Brigade. |
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| Club Owner | 20966 | No
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| Quote ="Cowgirl Nostalgist"
Don't mind GF. He's a fully paid up member of The Stoop Hard-on Brigade.'"
Nope.....I just don't see the need to move away from the ground. Along with the name change, the move was pointless and will deliver little in the way of security in the long term for the club. I have no love of the Stoop, but we were in charge of our own destiny there. |
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| Quote ="gutterfax"I just don't see the need to move away from the ground. '"
Maybe not in 2006 but in 2013 the club has about as many fans as your average non-league football club.
The Hive is a state of the art facility in those terms.
We are where we are. Anything else is crying over spilt milk. |
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Melif,
Don't do it mate, get out of the Gutterfax vortex now!! If you get dragged in to it getting out is gonna be a challenge.
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| Quote ="gutterfax"Cool story Bro.
Here are some FACTS for you regarding your new best buddies.
Your new tenants/ground sharers receive about £1.5 million a year from the SL TV deal and in 2012, spent a total of £2.7 MILLION on their first team squad and £524,000 on Coaches.....the Owner sunk £2.2 million in to cover their shortfall.
2013 figures are not available, but I assure you that they are just as ugly!
Bottom line is that a team of 2nd rate players (we are shopping for cast offs and loaners) will finish dead set bottom in 2014, hardly inspiring either new or existing fans to pay £16 or more to witness weekly hammerings. TK will not see any benefit of future in having a championship club with 800 fans in 2015 and London Broncos will move on again.
Basically, It costs a minimum of £4,000,000 to run a SL club. £2,500,000 of that needs to be generated by the club itself with the rest from SKY money. In 2012, the club raised £543,000.
On your last point......we've shared/rented with Charlton, Harlequins, Charlton, Brentford and Harlequins over 18 seasons. When it comes to cross fan cultivation, I wouldn't be holding my breath
'"
How did they spend £2.7 million on the first team squad,how does that break down? |
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| Quote ="j.c"How did they spend £2.7 million on the first team squad,how does that break down?'"
I'd think that given it's a LIVE cap checking system, then £1,650,000 + 10% = £1,815,000 for the top 25 players and then £860k on the other fringe players?
The figures I have seen are not broken down, so I can't be sure, but it could be that the "heading" 1st Team includes everything (hotels/transport etc???)
I know that these figures are accurate and have been seen by the RFL so I doubt there's any skulduggery going on. |
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| Quote ="gutterfax"I'd think that given it's a LIVE cap checking system, then £1,650,000 + 10% = £1,815,000 for the top 25 players and then £860k on the other fringe players?
The figures I have seen are not broken down, so I can't be sure, but it could be that the "heading" 1st Team includes everything (hotels/transport etc???)
I know that these figures are accurate and have been seen by the RFL so I doubt there's any skulduggery going on.'"
Its frightening what it costs.
if theres ever an argument for massive investment in devoloping your own players then this is it |
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| Quote ="j.c"Its frightening what it costs.
if theres ever an argument for massive investment in devoloping your own players then this is it'"
Of the £4,400,000 needed to run the club in 2012, only £543,000 (12.5%) was generated by the club. The figure was 13% in 2011, 13.5% in 2010, 16.5% in 2009 and 20% in 2008. |
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Based on the matches against the other 13 SL teams over the last 18 seasons, the average attendance for a season is 3,591.
Anything less than this in 2014 and I suspect that TK won't be interested in anything other than keeping us as tenants and David Hughes continuing bankrolling the club. 46,681 fans over 13 games. The last time we achieved that as the London Broncos we were a play off team in 2005.
I suspect that in 2014 we will not be a play off team, so somebody, somewhere is going to need to pull a rabbit out of a hat!
AVERAGE ATTENDANCES:
Bradford 4,550
Castleford 3,294
Catalans 2,469
Hudds 3,207
Hull FC 3,534
Hull KR 3,063
Leeds 4,288
Saints 4,714
Salford 2,618
Wakey 2,827
Wire 3,731
Widnes 3,235
Wigan 5,151
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| Player Coach | 6858 | No
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| Quote ="gutterfax"Of the £4,400,000 needed to run the club in 2012, only £543,000 (12.5%) was generated by the club. The figure was 13% in 2011, 13.5% in 2010, 16.5% in 2009 and 20% in 2008.'"
Oh dear not good figures at all.Its like the gambler blinked,shiit himself and then folded,what a shame. |
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| Club Owner | 20966 | No
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| Quote ="j.c"Oh dear not good figures at all.Its like the gambler blinked,shiit himself and then folded,what a shame.'"
It amazes me that les than 12% of the spend on the team was spent trying to market them over the last 5 years and they wonder why nobody bothered turning up.
£1,400,000 on Marketing and Marketing Salaries is £280,000 a year. In that period, they managed to lose 1,000 fans off the average..  |
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| Sounds like we are close to agreement in some regards and you have shown that the biggest draw by far is success.
Quote ="gutterfax" TK will not see any benefit of future in having a championship club with 800 fans in 2015 and London Broncos will move on again.'"
I have avoided passing any comment on Broncos as I don't feel it is my place to do so but please forgive me this one occasion.
Were will Broncos go to if they are relegated?
Would the story be different at the Stoop?
I had already looked at Broncos finances and they are clearly unsustainable without someone prepared to throw away money or the club dramatically cutting costs. My first thought when I saw them as a Barnet fan was please god don't buy them unless it's debt free and you can cut 2 mil off the costs. As we have agreed TK is not the investor to keep an unsustainable business afloat but more someone who will look to make it viable.
If Broncos did get relegated and the current owners decided to sell debt free then I could easily see TK taking on Broncos and it being more likely that Broncos will stay put, it would be his chance to take ownership and build from the ground up. I have seen a few posts claiming he is only seeing this as a short term money making venture but tbh that's not his style (historically). In many regards it would be the same as his investment in London Bees.
If however Broncos do well straight away and start getting sellout crowds then the current owners will be less inclined to sell and they will probably start looking to move to a bigger ground quicker than the Hive can develop to accommodate them. I guess the real unknown is how long your investor will continue to foot the bill and whether or not there is someone else willing to take on that burden should they stop. |
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| Quote ="meliferra"Sounds like we are close to agreement in some regards and you have shown that the biggest draw by far is success.
I have avoided passing any comment on Broncos as I don't feel it is my place to do so but please forgive me this one occasion.
Were will Broncos go to if they are relegated?
Would the story be different at the Stoop?
I had already looked at Broncos finances and they are clearly unsustainable without someone prepared to throw away money or the club dramatically cutting costs. My first thought when I saw them as a Barnet fan was please god don't buy them unless it's debt free and you can cut 2 mil off the costs. As we have agreed TK is not the investor to keep an unsustainable business afloat but more someone who will look to make it viable.
If Broncos did get relegated and the current owners decided to sell debt free then I could easily see TK taking on Broncos and it being more likely that Broncos will stay put, it would be his chance to take ownership and build from the ground up. I have seen a few posts claiming he is only seeing this as a short term money making venture but tbh that's not his style (historically). In many regards it would be the same as his investment in London Bees.
If however Broncos do well straight away and start getting sellout crowds then the current owners will be less inclined to sell and they will probably start looking to move to a bigger ground quicker than the Hive can develop to accommodate them. I guess the real unknown is how long your investor will continue to foot the bill and whether or not there is someone else willing to take on that burden should they stop.'"
Fair enough.
A SL club needs 4 million a year to function at mid table level. Without that level of income, then the club would be certain to drop out of SL into the 2nd tier, where the income needed massively drops down to a million. Problem is that as a SL club, we don't generate enough funds to sustain a championship club so if/when they drop down, then that will be that! RL, like many other sports, relies quite heavily on benefactors. With the exception of Leeds, Warrington and Wigan...possibly Hull FC, clubs haemorrhage cash and as you've said TK isn't a fan of that business model. As for where would the Broncos go? Probably move in with the Skolars and eventually merge with them. |
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That could be a good call, it find it difficult to believe we can put out a team that will not be relegated unless of course the RFL have decided to drop P & R for another year.
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....1,800 average for Barnet FC this year...we're going to fit right in 
