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| 1) get a new coach.....done!
2) keep Tamata and Ward fit all year
3) get the ball to Clubb a lot
4) find a decent winger
any more?
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| Depends on what we decide the term success to mean. At the minute there are teams that we can finish ahead of and teams that we cannot, and that is worrying not only for us, but for Super League and the English national side.
If we want to improve on last year than those four are a start, if we want to aim for the play-offs then the list needs to be alot longer
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| Quote ="Tre Cool"1) get a new coach.....done!
2) keep Tamata and Ward fit all year
3) get the ball to Clubb a lot
4) find a decent winger
any more?'"
Sign an experienced half-back and a Monster South Sea Islander!!!!!
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| Quote ="Tre Cool"1) get a new coach.....done!
2) keep Tamata and Ward fit all year
3) get the ball to Clubb a lot
4) find a decent winger
any more?'"
Have a little luck with injuries
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| I wrote all of this and then realised that I needn't have bothered because it is obvious.
To me although we have a very poor squad, it is about doing sensible things with and without the ball, working really hard, each player trying to improve one or more skill each week and establishing high, but achievable standards and expectations.
1) Defend smarter. Some individual pieces of defence were wholehearted last season, but as a team it wasn't good enough. Commit the right number of players to each tackle, get the contact right (if you get your shoulder in and knock a player back then you don't need to spend anytime messing around the ruck), increase the line speed (and come up together, no gaps), communicate, number up across the field, organise and then reorganise after a line break. As a team they must improve all those areas.
2) Don't make life difficult for yourself and easy for the opposition. No stupid rush passes which have a 5% chance of coming off. Don't surrender so much cheap possession in your own half. No gifts.
If we manage these two items then it would probably be an improvement on the last two seasons.
Moving on:
3) Practice, practice, practice basic skills and then work on game management/decision making. We need to be ruthless at identifying and putting away two on ones, three on twos etc. Maybe start with two on zero because I've seen us mess those up in the past. We definitely won't have the fastest, strongest or best players next year. But that is no reason not to have some of the smartest.
If that can be achieved then a team who can defend well, make minimal errors and turn opportunities into points won't finish bottom. But far too often we seem get some useful field position then look short on ideas of what to do. So the final point:
4) Practice set plays and timing over and over and over again. Work on pulling teams out of shape and forcing opposition players to make defensive decisions. Preferable difficult decisions, but any decision would be a start. One example was the Luke Williamson try against St Helens in the home league game where no one laid a finger on him. There was no elaborate offload or huge forward crashing through tackles. The angle of the run and the timing of the pass were perfect and did all the damage. More of that please.
Edit: Thought of another one:
5) A clean break should result in an absolutely miraculous piece of defending or a try for Harlequins. Nothing else. Not a routine play the ball because we couldn't get enough players to push through in time to support the ball carrier, thus making it easy for the full back and cover defence to snuff out.
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| Quote ="Harlequin Gooner"Monster South Sea Islander!!!!!'"
Sometimes I think Ward and Wilkes are so intent on getting a quick play the ball that they don't actually generate any forward momentum or inject any dynamism into the attack (like a 'Monster South Sea Islander' a la Fui Fui would). So while they might find the floor and get a quick play the ball, but the defence is hardly back peddling or stretched. As a consequence it doesn't make things any easier for our halfbacks and outside backs.
If we were able to get either Clubb or Howell running on to the ball in a bit of space with the defence back peddling then they are both capable of doing a bit of damag. Again it comes back to the fact we don't need revolutionary new tactics, we just need to do simple things well.
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| first post pretty good
Adding to it!
basic skills! keep hold of the ball and complete sets and try to finish the set in the right half of the field
Stop the panic everytime we get close to scoring, and try to get in the mind set that you dont have to score every time you get near the line! Good teams maintain the pressure and thats how the scoring chance comes along.
I think our biggest problem last year overall was ball retention, it would be interesting to see what our completion rate was over the whole season, on some games it really must have been down to 25%
A run without any injuries to key players would be a bonus, with little depth in the squad losing 1 or 2 of the main play makers does make a massive difference
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| From an attacking perspective, and we all know this because we've all been saying it for years, but some nous on the last tackle would be appreciated. Its been a common shortcoming.
Towards the end of the season the team made so many basic errors it was obscene, knock-ons and missed tackles especially. Quite simply, the squad need to improve on this - I don't know whether its simply a question of confidence, or training methods of what - but it was a noticeable shortcoming of 2010 under McDermott. The Cas away game in August was a classic example - if we'd kept hold of the ball a bit more, we'd have won that game but time and again we failed to complete our sets. Completion rate of 27% for the Huddersfield away game earlier in the year. These kind of stats are criminal and I don't care how weak the squad is compared to the others, they simply have to improve.
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| Can I add a decent kicking game, it has been so lacking in the last few years and it can make an under powered pack more effective. More 40-20s and more imagination. At times under Mac our attack just seemed desperate with miracle balls all the time, usually resulting in a try for the opposition. Also please find some plays for the wingers, instead of using them as second rowers, we only kicked for Penny! If we can utilise Clubb they way England did then all is not lost!
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| Had an interesting conversation with a friend of mine who is a cousin of a recent ex player. Main point of the conversation were
The Players were extremely happy with Powell getting the coaching job and all think that he will make a first class coach and that all the players will be behind him. He apparently involves the experienced players in the thought process and apparently mac wanted nothing to do with that approach.
Clubby does not want to play centre (even after representing) and wants to play in the forwards. Mac would not change him from the centres. Powell is currently looking for a loan centre and if one cant be found will be adding a couple more backrowers and will be swapping Rob Purdham to the centres and Clubb to play some front row.
Mac was well liked as a person but my friends cousin could not believe how old fashioned mac was as a coach
Dave Hughes was trying to get a deal sorted out with the RFL for a long time before it was done and believe it cost him the chance to sign the right big name players that they wanted so there is an agreement to send some more of ?Wigan's promising young guys here on a season loan.
This year will the expectations are for a fair year and trying to just improve a little on last year and that 2012 will see two marquee signings with one a fair way down the track in negotiations now.
Seemed pretty genuine and will be interesting to see how much comes to fruition
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| Quote ="niles"Had an interesting conversation with a friend of mine who is a cousin of a recent ex player. Main point of the conversation were
The Players were extremely happy with Powell getting the coaching job and all think that he will make a first class coach and that all the players will be behind him. He apparently involves the experienced players in the thought process and apparently mac wanted nothing to do with that approach.
Clubby does not want to play centre (even after representing) and wants to play in the forwards. Mac would not change him from the centres. Powell is currently looking for a loan centre and if one cant be found will be adding a couple more backrowers and will be swapping Rob Purdham to the centres and Clubb to play some front row.
Mac was well liked as a person but my friends cousin could not believe how old fashioned mac was as a coach
Dave Hughes was trying to get a deal sorted out with the RFL for a long time before it was done and believe it cost him the chance to sign the right big name players that they wanted so there is an agreement to send some more of ?Wigan's promising young guys here on a season loan.
This year will the expectations are for a fair year and trying to just improve a little on last year and that 2012 will see two marquee signings with one a fair way down the track in negotiations now.
Seemed pretty genuine and will be interesting to see how much comes to fruition'"
Niles, that is pretty positive, I hope you are right!
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| Quote ="niles"Clubby does not want to play centre (even after representing) and wants to play in the forwards. Mac would not change him from the centres. Powell is currently looking for a loan centre and if one cant be found will be adding a couple more backrowers and will be swapping Rob Purdham to the centres and Clubb to play some front row.'"
Interesting. Won't that rather limited his opportunity to be selected for England again? I mean, if he seriously wants to play in the pack, he's desperately got to improve his defence.
If we sign Charnley as has been indicated, then he slots into the gap left by Clubb and plays alongside Howell.
Excited already by the idea of two 'marquee' signings - when was the last time we had one of those, Henry Paul?
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| Talking of `marquee signings`.......I had the pleasure of watching Henry Fartfreely getting a pounding yesterday when the RU side beat Leeds. What a waste of space he is and thank god his contract with Quins RL never came to anything!!!
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| Quote ="The Penguin"Interesting. Won't that rather limited his opportunity to be selected for England again? I mean, if he seriously wants to play in the pack, he's desperately got to improve his defence.
If we sign Charnley as has been indicated, then he slots into the gap left by Clubb and plays alongside Howell.
Excited already by the idea of two 'marquee' signings - when was the last time we had one of those, Henry Paul?'"
IIRC Charnley has a kicking game so we have no choice but to put him in the halves so they will have to find another Centre - maybe one of these Wigan lads.
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| Quote ="Snoopy"IIRC Charnley has a kicking game so we have no choice but to put him in the halves so they will have to find another Centre - maybe one of these Wigan lads.'"
He kicks goals, that doesn't neccesarily mean he has a kicking game. Everyone refers to him as a centre.
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| Marquee signing surely that was Tookey? he looked like a big tent!
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| We have a new 6/13 coming from Aus who may be able to kick.
I was only thinking the other day about why we are bring in Charnley? As has been mentioned above Clubby could move to 2nd row where he could run along side the centres in attack. I always believe thats what we should have done with LMS who had speed in abundance.
There is nothing novel in using players to add to sessions. With Robs inexperience I wouldnt expect anything else- The challenge he faces is bringing it all together in training plans, tactics, fitness etc
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| Quote ="wire-quin"We have a new 6/13 coming from Aus who may be able to kick.
I was only thinking the other day about why we are bring in Charnley? As has been mentioned above Clubby could move to 2nd row where he could run along side the centres in attack. I always believe thats what we should have done with LMS who had speed in abundance.
There is nothing novel in using players to add to sessions. With Robs inexperience I wouldnt expect anything else- The challenge he faces is bringing it all together in training plans, tactics, fitness etc'"
Just saw the 2010 Newcastle vs Manly game and Bailey looked much more of a second-rower rather than a stand-off or even an English style loose-forward. He would be a big stand-off and maybe we will finally found someone who can kick the ball to the sideline and gain more than 10m. On an offensive kicking game, I wouldn't back the Bails to be the answer to that problem that we've had for a few seasons now.
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| Quote ="wire-quin"
I was only thinking the other day about why we are bring in Charnley? As has been mentioned above Clubby could move to 2nd row where he could run along side the centres in attack. I always believe thats what we should have done with LMS who had speed in abundance.
'"
LMS always preferred to play prop, Mac did want him to play 2nd row, but given Temata and LMS were the only decent props we had playing one as a 2nd row wasn't a goer. Hope Clubby does get a run at 2nd row, his game suits that position, and the weaknesses in his defence should be less of an issue as he won't be exposed by weaknesses on both his inside and outside making his defence look worse than it really is.
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| You want Clubb to protect a halfback in defence?
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| Peter Gill played SO on occasion and he was tall!
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| Quote ="poplar panther"Peter Gill played SO on occasion and he was tall!'"
and slow. But effective. Trent Barrett tall v. quick, v. effective. As was Paul Cooke at his best (forget the quick though in his case)
So nothing wrong in principle with a tall SO. Don't think anybody's said there is though.
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| Traditionally a lot of stand offs were quite tall. When I started watching you had players like Tony Myler and Schofield (boo!). I remember reading Vic Hey, the famous Australian and Leeds Stand Off from the war years, was a big bloke for his time. it is only in recent years they have become like second scrum halves (or third if you count hookers in that group as well).
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| How many inches below 7 foot is Leon Pryce?
Scott Hill wasnt small he played 6 on a number of occasions for us.
Pan face and Sculthorpe both GB 6's
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| Quote ="Darthchris"You want Clubb to protect a halfback in defence?'"
Most halfbacks are found hiding out wide in defence. Clubb's defensive problems are overblown, yes he comes out the line at times, and yes his lateral defence is not as good as it could be, but a lot of that is because he played on the weaker side of our defence, if he'd have played more on Purdo's side in defence I think he'd probably have got less stick as Purdo sweeps up a lot of stuff effectively. We haven't had a defensively sound winger since Jon Wells was actually playing regularly in that position, so we have a second-row/centre whose weaknesses get exposed far more than they should do if there wasn't weakness either side of him.
I don't have too many concerns about him defending as a forward, yes he'll need to up his work rate, but in the middle that lateral weakness will not be exposed so much, the question will become whether who ever plays in the centre instead will then get brickbats for same problem? Play Clubb as second-row, on Howell's side, where he'll get more of the benefit of Purdo behind him at LF and I think we'll see less moaning about Clubb. Then play Golden on the other side, with whoever we are going to slot in at centre, and lets see if Golden/Mr X can tighten things up, this may or may not lead to moaning about the same problem but with another player being the target.
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