The truth is out there

... and like most things super natural he remains a mystery. It's a mystery to me why he bothers to follow RL and Quins for all his mostly (but not all) negative comment (sorry realistic views).

Still I am sure his mum and dad love him. Even if most of us just manage to tolerate him.


I await his response to the above. Hugs all round Listy.

I've followed the club since 1996. There have been times of glory, hope and some brilliant rugby. The state of the club now, in many important aspects, is dire, and there are many concerns that need to be addressed or else in 3 years time we will be no more. Yes, we have an excellent stadium and the Harlequins brand is a huge positive but much, much more needs to be done. The squad for next season is the worst that I have seen since I started following the club, and I am worried. Come 3 years time there may not be any point in hoping or believing. I don't see how you can dispute any of that.

.... because without hope we cannot dream of greater things, we cannot effect change. Who would have thought 40 years ago America, the GREAT US of A would have a black President elect? But it has happened by coloured people remaining positive and fighting the fight through positive action, not sitting around and posting moaning messages.


You really have to learn to channel such negatives in to positives. I know you mean as well as I and others, you just go about it the wrong way. As you get older and wiser you will start to realise that change is never progressed through a negative approach - that just holds everything back. By trying to dream about the positives helps to create a vibe that flashes from person to person, and breads a winning culture.

Just ask your average American how the feel this week about their future. Setting aside the few crack pots, most at the company I work for see the only way as up.

Now if Obahma took your approach to message boards to his speach writing we'd have a 70 odd your old war vet and a nutter from the frozen north in charge.

I am off now, have a good evening. Mind how you go.

I've followed the club for the same length of time. I share some of your concerns but the biggest single issue is the poor crowds. Without increased crowds we will struggle to survive. I hope the club can sort this out with some focussed effort. The investment in junior development has certainly seen postitive rewards. What we usefully can do is give the club all the support and help we can.

I've supported the club since 1980 so

I know my opinions can't affect change but it doesn't mean that I won't express them to discuss with others. I don't post on here to change the way the club runs, I post on here to talk about issues with like minded supporters, much like I would after a match in the pub. I can't affect the outcome but its still worth discussing. Dreaming is all well and good but we need a lot more than dreaming to push the club forward.

Your comparison is somewhat ridiculous. You are saying because black people dreamed it, were positive, Obama appeared and become the President? Yes, as simple as that. Obama wasted millions of $ on his campaign then. Investment. Something there is very little of at Harlequins RL. In fact that situation seems to be what a lot of people on here think we are in - they are dreaming up that everyone will be OK if we believe etc, when in reality the club needs to take positive action and not steps back (offloading the top stars and not replacing them, closing half the ground etc).

I forsee the match day product being the worst it has been for a long time and this is my primary concern. Marketing the club is all well and good, you get the bums on seats but they won't stay, come back and watch us if we are getting stuffed by all comers sitting in 1 stand with no atmosphere and a crap view.

At the forum on Thur Mac was extremely positive with regards to the players he has. He believes we are stronger now that at any time in the past few years. As he said we haven't had a back row for some time. We now have 2 good players coming across to play there. We've lost Marty who didn't play that often, HP who was a steady Eddie, Hill who on his day was brilliant but not consistent or injury free enough.

I asked him on Thur how we will play without a No 6. He believes last year we were 2 reliant on Hill similar to Wigan with Barrett. Leeds tend to go to various first receivers which is what we will do.

I dont mind the other side of the coin because it provokes debate. Keep it up.

I think each year we have hope. It appears we are getting a decent support team working at the club CEO, Marketing etc. Everybody knows the crowd is a concern. Hoggy says we have targets, what they are he wouldnt say.

As Clarky said today during one of the matches its a team that will win the WC not individuals. Im looking forward to it as I always do.

Come next October, we'll know who's right.

Im not sure what we will know.

Listy says this is the worst team since 96

Mac says this is the best squad for 2 1/2 years

Both could be right, both could be wrong. One things for sure there is no correlation between the 2

Lister an alien, maybe not and I doubt any of us don't want the same outcome.

Even though I disagree with many on these forums, debate is healthy I say and should continue.

I agree, just because seem negative doesn't mean they can't have an opinion. What I would like to see a lot more of, is peoples solutions. Very easy to criticise. I have been there and done that for the club sometimes with money but mostly without! I've seen so many players who came to the club with no reputation and be some of the best signings ever (Steele, Dennis, Purdo, Sykesy, Tony Martin etc), also big names come and do very little for one reason or another (Spud Carrol, John Timu, etc). In 96 the squad wasn't a team of allstars but under TC's encouragement they became a good team. It's more about the team spirit than the size of your scrapbook. Hell when we went to Oz for 3 months at the end of 96, Andy Wilson wrote a long piece after being out at the camp, about the guys being on a " BIG" holiday! You ask any of the team if it felt like a holiday!! Team spirit had them finishing 2nd. So from what the staff tell me about BM I'll be watching with interest if they have the team spirit and emulate the 96/97 squad.

A winning team is always far better to watch than a losing team, but until the league adopts NRL style salary cap, the winning teams will always bring in more money, more money = better quality players. Chicken and egg. You can't compete with the likes of Saints, Leeds, Wigan etc until, the playing field is levelled up. The only way to do this in our positon is with players playing at their best every week. (i.e playing for each other).

Having been a supporter since 86, I'm still not sure if it will work! Living in Perth I've seen how big a sport can become, even if it is planted there (AFL from Victoria). It has always been a AFL place but not at the elite level until Eagles & Dockers came here. Now, a player or even ex-player of these two clubs only has to sneeze in the off season and it is still headlines news! Unions Western Force and Soccers Perth Glory would kill to get the coverage that AFL gets. Just like we would kill to get the coverage of an Arsenal or Chelsea. Ain't gonna happen even though I believe it is a better sport. The problem I see is that there is very little community support. Londons fans are some of the best in the game, but when you go to the teams up north, their supporters can be so one-eyed, but you have to remember that the majority live in the community. London is so spread out and has so many other distractions, that you have to be a devout fan to be at every game. Hell most of our supporters live further from the ground than most fans furthest Northern neighbours. That shows what great fans they are, but is it enough? Barry Maranta always believed that he just had to bring the game to London and everyone would fall in love with it! Having said that, the man plowed so much of his money and time into it (along with David Hughes) that he deserved for it to work!! But it didn't, even with his friend Mister Murdoch doing his best to help. Hence I'm not sure if it will. Having worked with a number of guys still at the club (Steve Magee, Dom Fenton & Phil Jones). I can honestly say that no one could try harder. The effort these guys put into the joint is unbelievable. I'd swap anyone of these for my staff anyday, so passion and effort isn't enough. Answers. I'd be a very rich man if I had them! However I will never stop supporting the club or hoping and wishing for the best. And if I get any ideas, I have no hesitation passing them onto Mr Hogg.

That's my version of realistic but hopefully not negative. I still stay up and listen live when it's an afternoon game and still pray that it will be a huge success.................. Go you Quins Rugby Lads (or was that lessons)

And the real concern is that we have seen nothing yet to address this issue. Season ticket renewals came out fairly early this year. In mid October both I and my son received an email from the club saying

"If you are not planning on renewing your season ticket, please could you let us know so that we can keep a record."

I responded 4 weeks ago to say we would not be renewing fully expecting something back to enquire as to why or maybe to try and persuade us differently. I have had nothing at all from the club.

I assume therefore the club have accepted I will not renew and do nothing to convince me otherwise or to even try to find out why I haven't

Good job we can afford not to bother progressing these really

How can you judge that when you haven't actually seen them collectively in action yet?

The fact that last season we had the smallest crowds in Superleague by some distance is my main concern.

I agree totally that this is the No 1 and possibly only priority the club should have

And their response to that desperate situation so far is to close three quarters of the ground for next season

Sorry but that is NOT the action of a club who thinks it can change that situation

I do wonder whether now we have a 3 year franchise there is a realisation that there is no chance of another one and therefore lets not try too hard. A very negative view and I am not saying that is the view but the cynic (and maybe I am one) could read that into it

I cannot imagine the RFL are particularly impressed by it

On paper it is the worst looking...

on paper England have a good national RL team.

Whats your point? International rugby is completely different to club rugby. They don't play for 27 rounds for starters. England can't even get it right with a quality coach, proven at the top level.

In all honesty, I don't think the Club can change the situation. The bottom line is that sport doesn't attract enough people in London to make it viable at the highest level and has managed to struggle along in spite of the odds - and with enormous credit to everyone involved.

Regrettably, this then results in a policy of signing players who no-one else thinks are capable at this level, which in turn is not going to attract crowds.

If we manage to emerge with another franchise at the end of the next 3 years that will be great, but at this time, I'm at a loss to see what we bring to the table, other than allowing a few local youngsters a chance - which they could get through a beefed-up version of the Skolars before going full-time up north.

I really hope someone can prove me wrong on this.

On paper Hull City might as well not have bothered turning up for any Premiership matches this season.

You people are priceless. You never stop biting!

So I suppose according to you its not possible to make a prediction for anything? Can you predict what you are going to have for tea? On paper you might have beans on toast, but then this evening you might decide to go out. What will you do then? You must lead a frustrating life.

I'm looking forward to the next 3 years of quality rugby league at the Stoop and the progression of Rugby League in London.