I assure you I'm no knocker of London RL or a London SL team. I personally still think a strong London team would be great or the sport and I hope one can be developed. I want to write something that encompasses the current attitudes and feelings of London fans about whats going on. I was hoping some of you Broncos fans could answer a few questions for me? Please feel free to elaborate on your answers.

1) On a scale of 1 to 10 (1 not at all / 10 very) how confident are you that the team will be in Super League in 2014?

2) On a scale of 1 to 10 (1 not at all / 10 very) how confident are you that the team will be in Super League (top division) in 2015?

3) Where do you want the team to be playing next season and beyond (area/stadium)?


4) Do you think its more damaging that home grown players are looking to move on or that its becoming hard to attract top players from outside?


5) Do you play/coach/support any of the junior or amateur teams and do you think there is a sufficient link up between the SL club and the amateur/junior scene?


6) What do you think is the biggest obstacle facing the Broncos? (i.e. location, financial support, isolation from heartlands, crowds)


7) Would you still support the team if they dropped out of the top division and do you think a step down would help or harm the long term prospects of the club?


I'd appreciate any genuine answers either on the thread or even better by DM. Thanks.

1. 10

2. 9

3. Want? The Stoop.

4. Realistically we have only provided the sport with 3-4 top level players. Only 1 of these has gone onto do anything decent, therefore it is a complete fallacy to suggest that there are multiple players looking to move on. Tony Clubb is a disgrace and most London fans are pleased to see him move on after his hissy fit. It is concerning to read Dixon's comments but at least he has been subtle over it and he MAY have a decent future in the game.

As has been documented, the jury is out on Sarginson - some posters seem to be of the belief that Shaun Wane and the Wigan coaching setup will somehow turn him into a competent player and Tony Rea isn't up to the job. Phil Jones is lauded as a hero around these parts and often with good reason when looking at the results of our youth sides but the transition to Super League simply isn't there. Rea gets these players and the majority lack the basics and he gets the blame.

There is no doubt it is nigh on impossible attract top players down South as we simply cannot pay them a comparable wage to what our Northern cousins are offering.

Which is more damaging? Neither.

5. Personally I am a fan of the sport and that is all. I do not feel that it is my responsibility to get involved in Amateur/Junior sides and 95% of our fan base SHOULD feel the same. I absolutely give it up for those that do get involved - they are the true heroes of RL in the South. But I am a fan first and foremost and that is all it will ever be.

We are currently very distant from the Amateur side of things. From my experience, the amateur side is made up of people who love playing Rugby League but have little or no interest in supporting a London side. And when you see what is presented to them, who can blame them? A lot of blokes I have watched playing the game are ex pat's of the either the Northern or Australian variety who like a game of Rugby and a beer or 12 afterwards. Good for them.

Can't comment on the junior scene.

6. Money and senior management within the club.

7. Unlikely and absolutely 100% harm the long term. It would kill the club and immediately drop them down to a level of the London Skolars.

1. 5 is as high as I will go because regardless of what the club wants, it seems we are at the mercy of a soccer club owner and the residents surrounding his ground.
2. 3 as We will most probably drop into the Middle tier next year unless there is a massive injection of talent.....
3. Want = the stoop, but the reality is anywhere else will be chosen to cover the tracks of a failed administration.
4. Attracting players is hard because we get no London weighting on the cap.....as listy says, you can count the decent players we've delivered on one hand...
5. I follow all London RL from afar (in NZ) and admire the work being done at this level. I honestly believe these clubs job is made easier by having a SL team in the area.
6. Current owner and administrators have made too many mistakes over the last 6 years or so. If they aren't going to learn from these, then we need a new owner and somewhere we can sign a 20 year lease.
7. London 'til I die. I am the fiercest critic of the back office staff, but like a doting parent with a wayward teenager, I can't stay angry for too long. I believe the club will thrive in the middle tier BTW......and will regain it's place at the top table within 10 years

Honest answers for you mate!

1, 10 Pretty sure we will still be there
2, 8 I reckon we will fluke 11th or 12th next year
3, Want! agree with others here, the Stoop! if not the stoop then West or N West London even back to Brentford
4, Attracting more than 1 marquee player at a time is our problem, cost of livin g down here the big problem, sykes would have stayed if he had been paid a decent wage, he took a drop to go up north
5, Match official! junior development support is sporadic but its there, the debate on the amateur link has been had on this forum! registered players getting free season tickets etc etc Tag rugby probably get more from the club
6, Poor management! inability to build a decent squad biggest problem has been that the weak squad resulted in shocking results and dwindling support. Promoting the game in London and an inability or lack of willingness to expand the club catchment area and lots more.
7, RL through and through so yep I would still go watch them, but if we drop down then getting back to the top tier would take a long time, I feel it would need starting from the bottom again

1. 5. It is totally down to David Hughes. It's a done deal if he agrees a ground. Could go either way.

2. 1. The way funding is being sorted / how long we are leaving it to sign people we will go down.

3. Twickenham Stoop.

4. We need to sign some good players to build our team to keep good locals so not signing northerners.

5. When living in London I regularly watched South London and a few Skolars and Wests games in amateur rugby. My first Skolars game was v Oxford Cavaliers. Phil Jones is a RL hero but there are issues in the pro / amateur link.

6. They have alienated those of us who care and made no effort to replace us with new supporters.

7. We have no long term future at top level on 2015 without new funding. We may survive if we drop. Will I watch them? Don't know, I have watched all but one Oxford home game. I will have season tickets at both next year, if both survive. Will probably focus on one on 2015 and at the moment am enjoying Oxford more. If Gloucestershire move to Lydney I'll probably watch them occasionally.

Thanks for the responses. I'm surprised that you all want to stay at the Stoop. London RL people I've communicated with on Twitter have all always said to leave the Stoop as its in an area that will never support RL and not very easy to travel to.

Well they're idiots living in dreamland. The only realistic stadium options for us all involve quite a bit of travel. The nature of our fanbase is that we are spread all over the shop, no one location is going to be perfect for everyone.

Completely agree, no one ground is going to please everyone! but is we are ever going to move forward, we need to be in a better position with regards the ground then renting, we need to have some share & control. It was only after Mark Evans left that our landlords started to play difficult with us, how can you stay at a ground like The Stoop where you are so limited to what facilities you can use and when. It is simply not workable administration not being based at the ground.

I see only two grounds as a possibility, The Hive, which the council attitude is not helpful with, and Orient, all the end of the day Gillingham may be the only option and that will kill the club.

I was around 9, that we will be playing in Super League next season 2014, but even up to yesterday we are still working hard to make a ground agreement, so it has dropped to 7 currently.

2015, well that depends if we survive and find a ground, If we do, which of course if my hope, then if we recruit well, it just may be possible to survive, but what supporters we have left then, will need to get behind the team and players. I have said before if some put in the same effort they do at moaning in backing the club, and I'm not saying, no one should ever say anything how the club is being run, then we may do better!

I have never seen a forum on RLFANS that has so many visitors, they are reading the constant bickering and moaning, and I could do better, is it no wonder the North wants to pull up the drawbridge and forget the South full stop, next they will want to change the name to The Northern Rugby League, then they can become a minor sport proper.

No one who knows our fans will be surprised that the vast majority think our future is in SW / W London, preferably at the Stoop especially in the short term.
We've spend most of our life here, and almost all of the development work has been here.
When we were dishing out leaflets at the Huddersfield game almost all expressed these sentiments; and a fat no to the Hive!

On the issue with the stoop, again it is a discussion that has been on here quite a few times. London RL fan base is not that localised and focusing on the locals around wherever we play is just never going to work. That is what makes marketing the game and who to target difficult. The potential fan base is "THE SOUTH" so you are looking at Kent/Essex/Berkshire/Oxon/Sussex etc etc so the access to the ground is going to be an issue for someone. The local residents of Twickenham/Leyton/Charlton/Barnet are not going to suddenly turn up in their 1000's just because we start playing on the doorstep.
Ideally we build a stadium of our own, that is close to the M25/M1/M40 with a train station next to it! The ideal will not happen!
So for me, looking at the facilities and playing surface etc the stoop is one of the better grounds I have seen us play at.
The issues with it such as us paying the rent, clashes with events over the road, the fact quins don't allow the squad to use all the facilities (ice bath etc) are a problem

I want to leave the Stoop, its been a nightmare recently with rail cancellations and big events on at Satan's Church over the road causing traffic chaos. I like the area and the stadium though.

The Hive's ideal in terms of size and access from the north but a bit far out from central London still. But on the underground which is a slight advantage.

Fulham or Brentford would be nice in a fantasy world.

Fulham, would be a Fantasy World Drea, going home!

+1. In fact I can't wait to leave the Stoop, and Twickenham all together. Six years of looking a empty stands (and getting emptier by the game) has done it for me. It is a nice stadium but it's too big for us and all the ing about by QuinsRU has left rather a bad smell and some resentment, especially in the past 4 years.

1. Empty seats can be viewed in any stadium we play in.....to suggest the stadium itself is to blame is narrow minded.
2. Quins RU "ed us about" only after we announced to anyone listening we wanted out and then had to backtrack and take an extra year at short notice. I believe there was one hastily arranged "double header" prior to this season, otherwise we were treated just fine.
3. If I were Quins RU and I knew that the tenants were offski at the end of the year and happy to blame anyone and everyone including them for the demise of the club, I would have done exactly the same regarding the "waterlogged pitch = H-Cup match" scenario.
4. We got bounced off the pitch at Griffin Park on a regular basis.
5. The situation surrounding Quins RU, the Stoop, the lack of fans and now the uncertainty over our future are 100% down to the club....blaming a stadium, its owners or where it is situated smacks of ignorance/denial/union hating or a rich combination of all three.
6. As much as I am resigned to accepting the Hive, I do lament the dreams we all had in 2006 with the chance to put down roots and leverage as much benefit as we could from a partner club, who at the time had 4k fans but big plans. Just look at where they are now and compare it to us......then look to within the London Broncos and the RFL for reasons why....not the Twickenham Stoop. If I'd told you in 2006 that we'd be happy finding a 3,500 seat stadium to rent, you'd have called me insane, but now here we are accepting it....

Correct on all points.

No one's blaming the stadium or QuinsRU for our failures and I reckon we all agree that LB is a shoddily run club which is where virtually all the problems lie. That said, and even with an uncertain future at the moment, I'm looking forward to leaving Twickenham for good. In the meantime... c'mon Lahndahn and smash the Bulls on Sunday and prove to the few hardcore fans left that we aren't a zombie club.

1 & 2 no idea, hoping for a yes but not if the outcome is the same recycled dross that we have had for the past few years.

3 Hive all the way. The Stoop is a great stadium but 20% full soulless, access issues, huge costs plus the continual pandering to the might landlord its a non starter. Lets get somewhere where we are 1) wanted 2) not dwarfed by the landlord 3) has a suitable capacity for our CURRENT needs 4) accessible. The idea that moving away from SW London will in some way hinder development suggests that no development goes on anywhere else across the metropolis. Young players travel from all over to be part of the Broncos junior programme so nothing changes and to add to that, if a club cant stand on its feet without Broncos input, they aren't really a club.

5 the Broncos interface with the junior game is very poor.

1) On a scale of 1 to 10 (1 not at all / 10 very) how confident are you that the team will be in Super League in 2014?

1) =#FF00005. We are the last non 'heartlands' top level British club in the competition. The RFL has stood idly by whilst the rest fail. These include Crusaders, Gateshead and Sheffield in the Super League era alone. They will not want another failure and I believe will agree to nearly anything to prop us up for one more year, after which they would expect us to drop down out of public view. But I'm not sure the club is up for that arrangement and the RFL will need to sweeten the deal by again treating us as non-heartlands club in the quotas and agreeing not to bar us from SL on the basis of any Stadium we move to. The silence is ominous from the club.

2) On a scale of 1 to 10 (1 not at all / 10 very) how confident are you that the team will be in Super League (top division) in 2015?

2) =#FF0000 1 We have been in the bottom three every year since 2007 so would have at least a 2 in 3 probability of being relegated in a normal season, however the other direct relegation rivals of Salford and Castleford have attempted to strengthen and are probably closer to Bradford and Wakefield than us in quality. I'm expecting London and Widnes to fall through the trap door at the end of the 2014 season. Our only hope is reinstatement of a quota ruling akin to that held by Crusaders to build a squad that is more than just whipping boys.

3) Where do you want the team to be playing next season and beyond (area/stadium)?

The only Rugby Union fans who have any interest in Rugby League are those who genuinely like Rugby, especially running Rugby. This is not the case for the 'Chattering Classes'. In general those based around the National Rugby Union Stadium are there for social occasions and networking opportunities that Rugby Union presents and because the sport appeals to their heritage and background. They will not attend something that is about a code of Rugby associated with the Northern working class and seen as a traditional rival to their sport. So there is no point in being based around one of these areas, even if the Stadium is a pleasant one, and in general those who are 'for' staying at the Stoop find it convenient to get there versus the alternatives.

I would take the club out to a working class area, where people do not have a pre-existing affinity to Rugby Union, almost certainly a football area. I'd prefer us to share with a club with a decent level of support.

Fulham would be perfect and I wouldn't mind any Championship ground, less keen on Barnet/Leyton Orient but grateful for anywhere if truth be told.

4) Do you think its more damaging that home grown players are looking to move on or that its becoming hard to attract top players from outside?

I couldn't blame anyone looking to move on with the man mismanagement of Gus Mackay. However the best home grown players are McCarthy-Scarsbrook, Clubb and Dixon and two out of three are still here. A second list have dashed for cash such as Worrincy, Sharp, Caro and now Sarginson but they are now playing in the lower tiers, whilst a large number of other juniors have gone to Skolars. We don't have many assets to strip. What is more important is that we cannot sign top Northern based players. You will sometimes get the commentators from the North who talk about London such as Peacock and Tomkins but they would not entertain moving here. Our only real market is Australia and in identifying talent that the NRL has overlooked, perhaps players on one of the Pacific Islands or a guy who is about 21 but is still second tier, he could radically improve us, but might need some polish.

5) Do you play/coach/support any of the junior or amateur teams and do you think there is a sufficient link up between the SL club and the amateur/junior scene?

I have no involvement with the amateur/junior scene and the sole reason is that I try to go to every Broncos game (this season have done every game except Catalans away) and Skolars home games. The games are on different days and have an overnight stay. I'd be up for helping on a Monday to Thursday basis but that wouldn't be enough I'd guess. The pride of the southern development is Medway Dragons. Dragons? This could be a Broncos flagship!

6) What do you think is the biggest obstacle facing the Broncos? (i.e. location, financial support, isolation from heartlands, crowds)

The club is in a vicious circle whereby a single benefactor without a long term vision puts in just enough investment to bring in a 'last pick' squad, but he does not properly fund off the field, so we have a very poor infrastructure around areas such as support coaches, training facilities and conditioning and the weakest commercial/marketing operation in professional sport. As other clubs have advanced we have stayed the same or weakened, especially with the unfair interpretation that we are no longer a 'non heartlands' club. We now win 1-3 home games a season and many visitors to the Stoop do not see support as a 'whole of life' thing, more so an opportunity to hammer the club on social media without being there, or showing a complete apathy. To change this cycle of decline the club needs to find a new home and one where we can win 5-6 games at home per year else put off the fickle. But it won't be easy.

7) Would you still support the team if they dropped out of the top division and do you think a step down would help or harm the long term prospects of the club?

Yes. The long term prospects of the sport will be harmed if there is no club in the South of England playing in the top level. The club will lose players to Rugby Union and top flight clubs. But a string of wins and a winning culture could revitalize the team in the short term. However, I think Tony Rea will turn things round with a fair chance and without Gus crippling the club we'd do much better.

This 'working class' argument is horrible. There aren't any working class areas in London. Plus those that attend events at Twickers come from all over the South, even the country, not TW1.

Football and Rugby League are traditionally working men's sports and working class sports.

The Football League began in the Midlands and North of England with Accrington, Aston Villa, Blackburn Rovers, Bolton Wanderers, Burnley, Derby County, Everton, Notts County, Preston North End, Stoke, West Bromwich Albion and Wolverhampton Wanderers.

The Rugby League began with the original clubs of Batley, Bradford, Brighouse, Broughton, Halifax, Huddersfield, Hull, Hunslet, Leeds, Leigh, Liversedge, Manningham, Oldham, Rochdale, Runcorn, Stockport, St Helens, Tyledesley, Wakefield, Warrington, Widnes and Wigan.

If you were to overlay the origins of both sports you'll find a tremendous alignment in geography between the areas and a very strong correlation in proximity between football and Rugby League.

Football has been more gentrified in the past few years but the real long term supporter has many of the values of passion, tribalism and enjoys the 'blood and thunder' of a big tackle and can watch either sport with real meaning and this has transcended mere geography.

I don't think there is any Rugby League club in our nation that enjoys support from the burgeoning middle classes who have a predisposition to another code of Rugby.

Fulham would be fine because it is a middle class area but has football in it's heart and the two sports of RL and football are correlated - someone can and will enjoy both. Leeds, Hull, Bradford, Wigan and Huddersfield show this, whilst many others are only a few miles apart. The Pit Villages are perhaps the only ones less closely connected.

I would correlate Rugby Union with something like the Boat Race - the same types watch both.

Good lord.

Alert, it's 2013.

So Fulham is now middle class. Where are these working class areas in London that you would advocate setting up camp?