Obviously an RL officianado. Who understands everything about the game! The Giants are going nowhere with the coach and the coaching team they have got! You can look forward to your last season in SL until things change from the top! And where did I mention English players. If you're going to reply to my post at least discuss the point I made! And whilst we are on the subject of Jordan Turner? Do you blame a player to take the money and try NRL. It also says something about the player being actually considered good enough in the first place by the NRL. Rick Stone came to the Giants with the worst record of any coach in Australia! And is keeping up that record here with the Giants!
Fact is Giants need a whole new coaching team to begin with. Then a clear out of a whole load of playing staff? Quote Shaun Wane "I want thirteen Wigan born kids who have come through the academy in my First team" and he is close to that now! The Giants simply don't have that desire from top to bottom!

Has anyone got an opinion on the policy of long contract signings. GJ makes a good point about not being able to get players here without a big incentive and It's a point i have made myself.

It's hard not to agree with , or at least see a lot of sense in what 456 is saying, Even allowing for some very average signings ,"we also have made some decent ones " we still have a decent team compared with many and yet we consistently perform way below what we should.

Is it that we need a complete clear out of coaching staff ?, Is R Stone any better than P Anderson was ? " we are still where we were " Does the big change need to come higher up the chain ? It's hard to work out why we are consistently a club of such under achievers.

I get the feeling that the club is run more as a business " albeit very poorly " rather than a RL club, does anyone above field level know anything about League, or is it just like running a supermarket to them, We get x amount of money from Sky + what comes from the fans, it's just a matter of plodding on. As long as we survive in SL it will all come again next year.

That's a very cynical view and I'm not saying it's how it is, It's just how it appears at times, and it doesn't take into account Mr Davy's huge input over the years, That in fact, is the most baffling thing of all to me,.

Anyway we have got J Turner, for better or worse " and i can't see how it can be worse " We have got rid of Brierley who was doing us no good whatever, Our push for survival has started a gain, which brings me right back to the original point, Will we be OK with all these long term signings.

Good I am glad at least one person can see the point I am making. I don't want to see the Giants go down at all. They do have some quality players good enough to keep them in SL? So there is something else fundamentally wrong? Is it the players desire? Or is it at coaching level? Choose whatever happens, the Giants have to recruit better 100% from top to bottom? And thank ken Davey for his unerring financial support?

Oh "456" and "Jo Jumbuck" if only the Giants had people of your calibre and knowledge of Rugby League and expertise in contract negotiations, plus your optimism and drive to push the club forward... please join the board and all will be well. You could use your experience in what must have been highly succesful careers so far!

It apears that not all the contributors on this site understand the fundamental's of rugby league as a team sport. Nor do they like others opinions?

I've been saying for ages the club would be incredibly successful with all the experts on here!!

That's when you haven't taken your ball home eh Daz,
They might well have done better with a change of personnel mate, If their record of success ( or lack of it )over the last 60 years is anything to go by. You and some others would seem to be happy enough with that, and anyone who isn't should not be asking questions, I have asked you for your opinion on long term signings but as ever you have so far declined to answer, why that should upset you so much i don't know. Except you never question anything the club does because it's not what fans do " if they are real fans "

So here's another one for you" and Jumper" As far as i know there are 6/7 clubs in the whole of the R League with rich owners, i think all of who will be in the top comp, the giants being one of them, Why then are we such perennial strugglers ?, why have we got such an abysmal record in S league ? ( or for the 40 years before that ) I don't have the answers but there must be some, It can't just be bad luck etc.

I have just asked those questions, i haven't claimed to be " one of those experts on here", but sadly just asking questions is enough to incite some posters to hostile and /or sarcastic comments, rather than giving their opinion on possible answers.

But there hasn't been a change of personnel so all we can do as supporters is support rather than claim to know better as some do.

My only experience in R league is 60 years of watching, the last 30 years watching the Giants, A few of those sponsoring the club, in a small way.

I did run my own small business quite successfully until i retired thanks, and now i am involved with one of a different nature, and IMO of a far more important nature than Rugby, so i'm afraid the board will have to soldier on without me, Lets hope the next 20 years is an improvement on the last 20.

So who is claiming to know better ? and do you have an opinion on long term contracts, or is it just " it must be right if the club does it "

i will give you an opinion. The practice of giving long term contracts at the club was established long before we *needed to* because of our league position. It has the obvious consequence of putting players in their comfort zone and could well be our biggest factor in the ongoing malaise that surrounds the club. We all need an incentive now and then to do our best, having a secured contract for 4 years does not provide that incentive. You would assume that a longer contract means a lowering of the other terms, but a player who one year into a 4 year deal is clearly not doing the business is a drain on the cap regardless of the amount of salary they are on.

It has also handcuffed coaches (stone being the main one) in that they have very little opportunity to shuffle their personnel. Unfortunately, i imagine it is now a neccessity to get the calibre of player we require as its the only thing we offer that other clubs wont, but it has been a very destructive practice for a very long time.

club run as a business?? you dont come into rugby league to make money.

stick them all on one year deals... soon get motivation then

see it all to often, players on their final year and their performances start to rise...rapira this year....

then again...dont offer mcgillvary , brough , cudjoe and the like longer deals and you lose them because other clubs will come in

Well you have an opinion, which pretty much sums up my own Opinion, which i stress is only an opinion and not a claim to know better than anyone else.

Take your point Brearley, the only thing i would say is there is a difference between players who have proven their quality by gaining regular International selection, and ones who have been playing at championship level, or one who is a more than decent player yet has not yet gained that status.

A four year deal for those who perform consistently is no bad thing.

4 year deals for those who have not earned it is a different matter

The other problem with long contracts is that it only really benefits the player. A player who increases his value during the duration of the contract will still demand an increase in terms or will find some way to leave the club. A player whos value decreases however will milk the contract for all its worth! As has been stated by various posters why on earth were championship players given contracts of more than 1 years duration? It should very much be 'lets see how you go', don't like it? Find another club who is willing to take the risk!

we as fans dont know the full details of a contract though do we

some may be performance based or based around how many games they play...

some may start at 100,000 grand then in the 4th year come down to 50,000

who knows!

we arent the only club that offers long term deals

At last a sensible post on contracts

its all in the detail.... of which only the player, agent and club will know!

nice debut for turner, a try and an assist

said he was a big lad and looked it today at centre

Today we had genuine threats on both sides with tries resulting. Leroy and Jerry now have a real challenge as to the best centre/wing threat as Turner/Murphy offer much on the opposite flank to make both our outside edges a true worry for opponents.

We barely used that edge- but when we did it looked solid. Turner wasnt greedy looked to be a team player. Just one error from turner who failed to take the ball in from a bullet pass from brough - but was nice to see a positive reaction from brough, albeit when we were well in front. When brough is happy we play better

This

we have needed a centre for some time, hopefully turner and murphy can make a great partnership now