Could not find the other thread fortunate to save some peoples blushes.
Now is the tim eto look at the season and Anderson as coach.

Losing three games or winning five on the bounce means absolutely nothing. Reviewing it when it is all over is the time.

Firstly.

| Have said a lot about us needing a new half. The main reason for this is that i have been led to believe from a reliable source is that Danny Brough's ankle is shot and that all season he has been playing with a pain killing injection before and after EVERY game.

That is one of the reasons he has at times not taken on all the kicking duties.

If True that is a real concern firstly that we could not rest him and secondly that we had no one else who could come into the team to replace him. We are effectively a one man team at the minute. We need somneone else to partner him or to provide quality backing up if he needs a rest.

Brough needs to learn now to play a different game ala Briers in his last two years. He needs to Marshall the troops and run the plays. To do that he needs a good running half to work with him.
The club will decide who but i rate Brierley and Hampshire.

The Club should also tell him to retire from playing from Scotland at the end of this year. We pay his wages and he needs to be playing for us. He needs a rest and understand to lengthen his career.

The forwards.

Too often in big games our forwards get bullied and lose out to other teams.
Against the top sides Wigan and Leeds our forwards often come off second best. We lack aggression and regularly see our players turned on their backs whilst opponeets often are on their front and get quicker play the balls. We rarely see our props fighting to get up for a Quick PTB.

I do not know if that is a quality of player, lack of aggression or coaching but it is a regular feature of the big games. What this does is put our players on the back foot and they constatntly have to scramble and work hard to keep in the game. This leads to fatigue and means that our players cannot concentrate and keep up an 80 minute performance.
Hopefully Rapira will help with this but we need more of a culture change in the pack to bring out a nastier streak.

We have a good selection of forwards with different skills the knack is to make sure they work together on the pitch.

For me the biggest area for development is Lawrence. I think he is a great player. Brilliant tackler. Good effort and decent go forward BUT if he is to develop he needs to change his game. ( this may be a coaching issue). If he is to play at second row he needs to develop some of the centre skills he used to have,. He needs to play wider and fill that role that Ferres used to to create the extra man get the offload and get his centre / winger away. IMHO he is wasted as a tackler battering ram in the middle.

If we need the two SR's playing left and right that allows us to play either a third prop ( taai) or a playmaker at LF ( Gale? ). But we have to have two SR who can play wider with qualities above and beyond running and tackling.

We will miss hughes IMHO.


Hooker at least we have one for next year !!!. Other than that Leeming is a project as well probably another year needed for him. Robbo is shot. Wood injured. We really have struggled in this area.

The Backs

Wardle has to move to SR. Cant pass wont pass ( last week against Leeds and yesterday when he could have got Murph away in the third minute). Strong defensively but needs to move to the pack. Could be a great move for him.

Who then plays at Centre ?

Connor has potential but seems lazy on defence / Laterally very slow. He needs to up his game or the coaches need to work on him. Ballet classes would be a good start ( Seriously).

Full Back

Grix is solid but does not have the ability to take us forward in the longer term. Simpson is a project at least 18 months of development needed. Hampshire would be a great signing full back and half back abilities.

Wings Jerry and Murph are a good first choice but who comes in after them.

The other thing is that the backs and even the halves have a lack of pace. Broughton had the pace but IMHO appeared criminally underused. We need an injection of pace into the team somewhere. The obvious place would be in the halves / FB


Halves,
We have one great one Brough who is playing lame. Then we have Robbo Wood Ellis. None are much better than the other. They should be back up players, or reserve hooker. Would like to see Ellis at LF (possibly starting with a prop type at loose Taai) then Ellis coming on as a playmaker.
This though would not work unless our props starting winning the go forward in big games.

The tactics

Not convinced we have this right. Five kicks and a bit of Brough magic needs something to give some variety. Keep Brough quiet or play him behind a beaten pack and we are knackered.

No doubt everyone will come on here and talk about our great tries against Wakey or wide to west play vs Wire in the 8s.

Those games mean nothing. Big games are what counts. In the big games we get beat. I dont buy the theory it is psychological it is Skill and personnel ( maybe coaching).

The Captain
Anyone but Brough. Needs to concentrate on playing. Hinchcliffe

The coach.

I still think the jury is out and i dont have enough inside knowledge. I am not sure he is getting the best out of players or whether he has to work with what he has. Does he have the support to bring in players. Arte SC negotiations and contract talks right or is he stuck with what he has. But i do feel that the players lack very basic skills. Particularly passing and winning the wrestle. These are coaching things that can be addressed as can the matter of hooker.

I also think we have had a lot of players go backwards since coming to the Giants pr previously
Cudjoe, Huby Patrick. I dont know why but it is a concern.
If you compare how Gale has improved under Powell compared to Ellis under Anderson there is a good parallel. How many on here laughed at Cas getting a Bulls reject in Gale when we took Ellis. Yet who would you prefer now ?

I feel that he has to make some changes for next season otherwise i feel he has gone as far as he can.

The squad.
We do need some changes and there should be some wriggle room.
Patrick wont come back IMHO and should go to Wakey or Bulls ( whoever wins the MPG).
Robbo could go into coaching. These two should create some SC space for a new player.
I cannot see us winning anything or getting any better if our pivots and key players ( 1, 6, 7, 9 and 13) are based on combinations of Grix, Robbo wood and Ellis.

The club.
i am still not convinced we get things right off the field but that is another issue. We have no choiuce in my opinion but to move to evening KOs and give up on Sundays. Pretending to be a sunday team and then having everything changed to other nights is more damaging than making a decision and starting afresh with a new strategy.

The sad fact is that despite the cheerleaders on here. The above issues need to be addressed or we will stay competitive but not move forward.

A lot of wisdom in this post.

My view is twofold

1. The spine of the team isn't good enough. Grix is a mid table player, Robbo should retire before he seriously damages himself, and Brough is crocked and getting old. Ellis is better than you give him credit for, but he's not a replacement for Brough, he's a partner for Brough. It's a pity it took half a season and an ankle injury for Brough to let him have the ball. Hinchcliffe is a massive signing for us.

If what you say about Brough's ankle is true, then the club should stop him playing for Scotland.

2. Powder puff forwards who aren't interested when things get tough, and lack the guile to control the PTB/tackle as you mention. Been a problem for a while. My view is that Kopczak is the worst. He may have all the stats, but noone in the game is frightened to play him. I have big hopes for Rapira on this score.


I actually think this team has gone as far as it can, and will only decline from here. The big challenge for Anderson is if he can build another one on the budget he's got.


"The club.
i am still not convinced we get things right off the field but that is another issue. We have no choiuce in my opinion but to move to evening KOs and give up on Sundays. Pretending to be a sunday team and then having everything changed to other nights is more damaging than making a decision and starting afresh with a new strategy."

I'm totally convinced that the off-field side of the club is the root of the problems. There's no ambition whatsoever and a fair amount of incompetence. Where's the training ground - they've been full time pro for near on twenty years yet still train on a municipal pitch? Who is responsible for growing crowds and why haven't they? What the feck is going on with HR such that they get sued by an ex-employee and lose? And on and on it goes. There's some weak leadership backstage. I wonder why Davy lets his money be wasted in this way?

Russell Crowe said something earlier this year about the governance of the game and how you have to question why the crowds in the UK aren't growing and how people are keeping their jobs after repeated failure. If I won the lottery and bought the club off Ken Davy, I'd have Thewlis in on day one wanting a detailed explanation of how he plans to get crowds to 10,000 as a starting point bearing in mind how crowds in his first year in charge were 7,000 average and now they're 6,000 average. WTF does he do all day?


BTW, for me evening kickoffs would be a disaster. I can only really get to Sunday games. I didn't bother with a season ticket this year because it wasn't worth it. To be honest, I'd probably pack it in and just watch the big games on TV now and then. The little family group of nine that I sit with would probably drop to two. But if the business case was there for the move, then it's there. I bet Thewlis et al haven't ever heard the phrase "business case"

Steve i agree about the Sundays. It has stopped me going because since working away Sundays is the only day i can attend/ But so many sundays get changed
( or it is percieved they do)particularly later in the season that we are now a thursday friday saturday game.

At the minute we do not have a strategy at the club.

Are we a sunday game marketing to families or and evening game catering for adults.

We need to be on eor the other. Trying to please two competing groups is worse than appealing to one.

From my point of view i would have to give up if it is not sundays BUT not enough games are sundays .

Within this i also include away games as f fans like to watch home and away.

We are now in the minority in being a sunday team.

I suggest the experts on here apply for the Coaches job as they know it all.
It is easy to pick on individual players who are told to play to the teams tactics. The whole structure of the Club should be looked at including who is responsible for recruitment? It appears Anderson has little input ,the CO
Runs the show.
I fear that we have hit our peak and without Ken, the future is bleak.

Is giving the kids the excuse to stay up late on a Friday or a Saturday really such a bad strategy? Can't say I've noticed that numbers of kids at the Friday teams' grounds suffer substantially in comparison to those playing on sundays.

NO it is a big thing for us.

Over the last few seasons our friday support compared to Sunday means that we lose about 1 third of season ticket holders dont come to evening KOs.

We took the little one along to the Friday Leeds match last week, and she was so tired she didn't really recover until Sunday. It ruined her weekend really. It's a late night, and after a school week as well. It's not really on.

Fair enough, I guess each clubs' fans have their own preferences.

DG, i don't always agree with you, but you have hit the nail on the head with a lot of that.
as Steve, alludes to, the spine of the team isn't good enough, apart from Brough, who isn't getting any younger or better, all the others are good players, Ellis in particular has been impressive, but Grix,Robbo,Wood are average for a top 4 side and probably wouldn't get much game time at other clubs?
our forwards are hit and miss and probably too soft, who is the real nasty bstard amongst them in the Mason,Griffin,O'Donnell role? we never seem to hit the forwards at pace giving them a chance of some good go forward, yes they work hard and are decent, but there's no nasty element to our pack, no one who can spark us when our heads are down.
I have to admit that i haven't been impressed by Huby yet, he doesn't look the same player as he did at cas, maybe he's been asked to play a different role, he looks like the LF that the OP mentioned, he seems to be used as a ball player more than a devastating runner/offloader he was at cas.

as for the coach, i disagree, i think PA has done a very good job and he has taken us to another level, Smith,Sharp,Brown and Anderson have all taken us onto the next step, but can we go the to highest step?
im not sure, but its not because of the coach ( allthough i have questioned his bringing back of Ferres and Bailey for the crunch games) despite what people think, we are still a relatively small club compared to Wigan,Leeds,Warrington,Saints,Hull in terms of finance, supporter base, sponsorship, we really shouldn't be competing with these clubs but more the Widnes, Salford and Wakefield. i believe that is because of the good coaching set up we have, despite the lack of finances, and even facilities that we have compared to the big clubs, we are punching above our weight, i feel that the only way to get to the highest level is to be able to compete financially, we cant do that on our crowds.

which is why i now think we should be looking at maximising any revenue streams we can, and that usually means friday nights, targeting corporates, 16-25 yr olds, who are probably the ones with more disposable income and free time,and making a giants game a night out.
it wont please everyone i know but to be honest, we aren't as a family friendly sport as we claim, since very few games are now played on sundays, and even the ones that have had had very poor support.
crowds have decreased lately despite us doing very well on the pitch, we have to look at why and how we address that and also make more money.
at the moment it's either bums on seats or high ticket prices, i know which i would rather have.

PA has done a good job. He's had the job three years and here's the points table for all three seasons combined.

Huddersfield Giants 117
Wigan Warriors 113
Leeds Rhinos 110
St Helens 107
Warrington Wolves 106
Castleford Tigers 88
Catalans Dragons 85
Hull FC 74
Widnes Vikings 68
Hull KR 67
Salford Red Devils 52
Wakefield Trinity Wildcats 48
Bradford Bulls 38
London Broncos 14

Consistently the best team in the league over the past three years during the regular season. That's not to be sniffed at.

But the playoffs are the next step and here's the playoff record over the same three seasons


Played Won
Wigan Warriors 7 6
St Helens 5 4
Warrington Wolves 6 4
Catalans Dragons 4 2
Leeds Rhinos 4 1
Huddersfield Giants 6 1
Hull FC 2 1
Widnes Vikings 1 0
Hull KR 1 0
Castleford Tigers 2 0


In the same time we've played five Cup games and only won two - and one of those was against Batley.

The big teams win big games. This Giants team doesn't. Why?

agree Steve, but maybe the players aren't strong enough mentally to win those games
how many of our current squad have had experience of playing in and winning finals, big games? compared to the other top teams?

hopefully next year our recruitment will pay off?

The problem is not psychological. We are not Chokers the team and squad are not good enough to win the big games. We cannot step up when it is needed.

Other teams can up their game we cannot..

Look at what happens in the big games we lose.

The pattern is out forwards lose out, we dont get quick PTBs other teams do.

We are then on the back foot and we have to work extra hard to scramble and have last minute defence. ( their is no lack of effort.) Our players work too hard if anything because we do not intimidate, hurt and dominate their forwards.

We then try to slow it down with hands in and give penalties.

Our forwards have to win the ruck.

Just go back and look at the last two games and count how many times we land on our front and backs and how many times the opponents do.

It is simple. We have big forwards who dont do the job in the big games.

And no one give me any about stats.

Our forwards get dominated in big games.

Just go back and look at the last two games on TV

l agree with just about all the first two posters said, and simonsays, we are all top coaches, yes we are simon, top armchair coaches, thats why we are on here,, you say, we are done for if Ken leaves, well maybe, just maybe, the next guy might just be better, so far we owe everything to Ken Davy, and his money, without which we would surely be in the championship, or worse, but what if, despite all his success in the finance world, he was out of his depth running a RL club,. Posters have refered to what is happenning off field, l personelly have had quite a few experiances with the club that at best were amaturish, at worst were total disregard for me as a supporter.
Posters have asked questions of Thewlis, well he,s a director, as well as GM, l,ve spoken of this before, looks like a job for life, turkey,s don,t vote for christmas, again l have spoken of what l think is a comfort zone down there, if l am right, then Ken is responsible.
l have already booked my flight for the GF (silly me) my 14th this year, only missed 2 home games, total nearly 10K spend watching them, payed for my ST next year, but that is it, no final (GF or CC)next year and no more me.
A long hard look in the mirror for everyone associated with the Giants, and l mean everyone.

Good job we didn't finish bottom- the Samaritans would need to draft in extra staff for the Huddersfield area!!!!
Perhaps the OP would like to change the thread title to season problems rather than review- cause we only seem to have negatives discussed.

Please feel free to give us all the positives. !!
Oh yes Jerry and Brough in the dream team.
Good wins against Wire ( lets ignore the fact this was the worst Wire team in the last five years)

A couple of good wins against Catalans and Saints.

We finished third and were in touching distance of the LLS.

Only 80 minutes from OT.
#
My view is that these positives are all smoke and mirrors and just hide the fact that we are not really improving. A 7% reduction in attendances does not look good. Oh you will have an answer for that it is nothing to do with us winning or the rugby we play it is all to do with SKy.

We are where we are because some teams badly underperformed.

If Wire and Saints and Catalans get their act together we will be seventh next season.

All look to have taken steps to improve ( as have we) But there are still some significant issues in our team / structure/ club that need to be addressed.

I am more interested in whether anything will be done to stop that and maybe take us forward.

If you have any suggestions please present them.

Alternatively if i have missed any great positives please feel free to let us know.

As opposed to not choking last week against Leeds, I believe they did choke last night. Loose carries, poor defensive line speed, poor discipline, lack of aggression, lack of offensive structure. They were beaten when the first whistle was blown. IMO that does involve psychological/mental factors. It may well also turn out the team isn't good enough to mix it at semi finals time but last night they didn't even give themselves a chance.

Maybe you are right maybe not. I just thought we looked tired last night and could not get up for a big game.

I think we left too much on the field last week after we lost against Leeds.

If it was psychological we would not have matched Leeds for 74 minutes last week.

We matched Wigan yesterday for about 6 minutes.

Leeds are better than Wigan IMHO

What an absolute load of sense. Unfortunately it will fall mostly on deaf ears, Huddersfield and It's supporters are so starved of success that they will grasp at any kind of inclusion in the top end of any comp as something to be celebrated, the fact that we get hammered and humiliated is written off as " we are punching above our weight" or" We have done well to get so far".

Seasons over and already we are getting the same familiar things coming out . Hinchcliffe and Panapa, They are going to be the one's who take us to the next level, we just need to sit back and wait for them to do their stuff, We are OK with Ellis and Robbo,Wood and Good old Grixy, We can't afford a new halfback and anyway there aren't any.

Mr Anderson! who Knows, I v'e made no secret that he doesn't impress me, I know he has signed an extension to his contract so he is coach whatever I think, but D Powel looks a lot more impressive with what he has achieved at Cas with a lot less quality to start off with.

If we are to make any real impression on the G Final next season , besides Hinchcliffe and Panapa, A halfback and a fullback are essential, We have Simpson coming through but he needs a couple of years yet. Anyone who thinks Ellis is the future for us , I say, do you think he would get in any of the top teams, He has done as well as anyone else there this season, Probably better, But like DG I feel his future will be at L Forward. Did anyone notice the speed Williams can think and move,
If we are going to challenge the best we have to get the right quality players in the key positions. Where Hinchcliffe and Panapa might do their stuff for us, is teaching our Forwards, It's not in the rules that they have to get a mauling.

* Rapira !!!!!

I agree with a lot of what's been said, especially the 'spine' of the team and the forwards.

Grix, as ok as he is for us he wouldn't get a look in at any other of the top 8 teams, in my opinion, look at Bowen last night how he seemed to be involved in every attack and caused us problems all night, i've been a fan of Scott in the past, i've also been critical too but we need to be looking to replace him now, or at least keep him as a squad player. As a top 3 team. which we have been now for the last 3 years, we need better.

Ellis, has proved me wrong as the season has gone on and he has actually been a decent signing for us but again, would he get in the side of any other of the top teams ? probably no and while he has took some of the pressure off Brough and indeed done some good things himself , i personally don't think he is likely to improve, If we are to move forward we need to improve in all areas.

Robbo - Bloody love this little fella to bits and if the other 16 players every week showed as much heart and enthusiasm as he does we would be cruising - unfortunately he's past his peak and although his scoots occasionally get us going his passing is woeful at times and often causes us to lose possession, his tackling technique seems to see him getting knocked out every week these days and if i'm being honest i can only see him getting worse as the weeks go by, i would love him to stay on at this club, he's a smashing bloke but not SL quality anymore



Wood - Looked decent before he got injured but like Ellis, highly unlikely he's going to suddenly turn in to a world class player, he's good backup but easily replaceable, with who i dont know !.

The Forwards - time and time again i sit/stand at games and watch opposition props slam into our guys at speed, knocking them over, barging through, getting a quick play the ball - doing what forwards should do, then i watch ours - hop, skip and jump into a tackle from 5 yards away and 2 mph...i cannot remember the last time i saw Eorl, Koppy, Huby, etc hit a ball at speed and cause damage, they almost walk up to the line then sit down...whether this is coaching or player choice i don't know but EVERY other set of forwards do this against us and it's so frustrating cos we're never gonna get ruck speed for our backs to work with, they are so inneffective at times we may as well play centres and wingers there - actually we probably do most of the time as they do more than the forwards...we desperately need some mongrel in our team, our forwards play like fairies at times, sorry if that sounds harsh but it frustrates me no end, there was a time we had a feared pack with the likes of O'Donnell, Mason, Griffin etc..they weren't the best players we've ever had but boy they made the opposition take note unlike the ones we have now !! hopefully Rapira can add some steel but i'd still want more either from the ones we do have or in any better replacements should they be available.
To be fair to Ukuma he does actually make an effort now and again !

Positives - Well we finished in the top 3 for the 3rd year running, how many other teams would love to be able to say that ? yes i know to some people it's still not good enough, me - i'm very happy with that it proves we are a consistently good team, unfortunately that counts for nothing on nights like last night though.

We are finally seeing more quality homegrown players breaking through, Leeming, Connor, Simpson, Johnson, Mason can all become regulars and important players in the future for us, we need to be patient though and not try and rush them and let them develop naturally.
I cannot wait to see Kruise Leeming next year after learning from Ryan Hinchliffe, a year older, more experienced, he will be a class act !.

The fact that as a fanbase we are now hugely disappointed in what would have been seen as success 5/6 years ago shows we are moving in the right direction.
We have a chairman who loves our club and continues to support it so we can all moan about it, and i'm pretty certain he will never put our club through the crap that other clubs go through, in that sense we are very lucky.

Let's not forget each fan has different opinions, objectives, hopes etc, me personally i see the rugby as a social thing, i go with my mates to have a laugh, a few drinks, a chat to other fans, a sing and dance if the occasion takes me - i love my rugby days and couldn't ever be without them, i'm not just there to see us win trophies, but my god i would love that to happen, to see Claret & Gold ribbons on the Challenge cup would be a dream come true for me but it isn't the be all and end all of being a Fartowner, i've watched for 27 years without a major trophy and will happily watch for another 27 without one as long as i 'enjoy the rugby'. Some fans are different they crave it, they insist upon it and they get cross/angry/mad every year when it doesn't come and i'll tell you what - when it does come, and it will !!!!! we will all celebrate it the same and be bloody glad our patience stood up !!.

wont win anything with an average full back.

hardaker and bowen in the grand final (barring leeds loss), we are no where near having a full back like those two.

like ellis, no for a new half back.

rapira im not sure will make much of a difference , the forwards are ok.

its full back and hooker where we need to sort things to improve as a side, hinchcliffe may be the answer to one of those positions.

then again we may get our hopes up and lose again anyway.

best chance to win something maybe if we get lucky passage through to the challenge cup final and play hull kr.

Sorry Daz I meant Rapira, Can't argue with any of your post by the way.

I was avoiding the forum today to let some of the initial emotions subside before posting. And there was no need as this pretty much sums up everything for me.

Thought we had a cracking season.

Things I could change!

1. Having friendlies
2. The ability to play in big games.

Really don't know what else we can do. Anderson has given the youth a good go. We got the best defence again. Made good signings for next season.

I think Wigan pipped us for best defence in the end.

plenty of positives, of course there is.

all in all it's been a good season again with the same old ending, the important thing now is that we find that way to go to the next level, although its not going to be easy!