Dead right. Hence the need for a pyramid, and for some kind of managed movement between divisions at all levels.

You are not David Gent by any chance?

I think a lot of the problems can be linked a lot more simply to be honest in that very few clubs own their grounds and therefore aren't entitled to anything being made over the bar etc and ending up relying on gate receipts and charitable donations to survive.

Quote ="FredParky"I have no problems with RL in Wrexham I have always said THE place to have a RL team (note a RL team not a SL team unless they get there on merit) what with the exiles living there and no problems with the RFU etc.. is North Wales (though didnt Wrexham used to be in England icon_wink.gif )'" Don't think Wrexham has ever been in England, though 15000 Eastern Europeans live there. Now there's a market Mr Lewis! en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wrexham

Quote ="FredParky"I have no problems with RL in Wrexham I have always said THE place to have a RL team (note a RL team not a SL team unless they get there on merit) what with the exiles living there and no problems with the RFU etc.. is North Wales (though didnt Wrexham used to be in England icon_wink.gif )'" Don't think Wrexham has ever been in England, though 15000 Eastern Europeans live there. Now there's a market Mr Lewis! en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wrexham

No, but he's damn good.

He will have to be to live up to his new role of "Director of Participation and Strategic Partnership" at the RFL.

I wonder how much the RFL have "invested" in this guy?

Sorry Joe , But seriously a pyramid ? , are you suggesting that they will only let clubs start at the bottom in future and work their way all the way up ?

This ' managed movement ' , will it have location involved in it ?

The short answer is, I don't know.

The longer answer would be, that's the theory, but perhaps with some interventions should opportunity present. By which I mean: Exeter Centurions may be able to start at the bottom and, gradually, work their way through the pyramid. But if Exeter Cheifs step in, take on and take over the club, pour in millions and offer their 12,000 capacity new stadium into the mix, maybe they'll jump a few steps.



There will be off-field gateway criteria at certain stages, just as there are in other sports. From memory, a National Conference RL team has facilities criteria - enclosed ground, pitchside barrier, technical area etc. The Student RL Super 8 League has facilities criteria. So does soccer at the bridge between the Football League and the Conference. My understanding and expectation is that we'll be the same.

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By way of example, take my local Union club, Wessex. They are in Devon 1. Below them is the bottom division, Devon 2 (though there are merit table leagues below that). If they are promoted, they'd go into the Devon & Cornwall Division. Then into Western Counties. Then into SW3. Then SW2, and SW1, Then National 3 South. Then Nat 2; then National 1, then the Zurich premiership. They are a 10th tier club, along with hundreds of other teams in different counties across the whole country. But their path to promotion into the very top division is already marked. All it would take is nine promotions, a new ground, a business plan, etc etc etc....

That's the direction RL is headed.

Oh, incidentally, when Wessex started in 1995 - part of the shakeup from Union's professionalism - they were put in the bottom division, and won consecutive promotions for around 5 years until they found their level.

And the jump between these is defined by what ?

He's been in that 'new' role for well over a year and is doing a cracking job.

If other RFL salaries are anything to go by, he'll be earning a good deal less than the going rate for that kind of role in any other major sport, but (and I know this is the case) is totally committed to the sport and the job. And, as David's department is the one which brought in £29.4 million for development, I'd say the "investment" has paid itself in spades.

League position to be eligable. Then a bunch of other criteria, size and capacity of ground, business plan, turnover, average crowd. All the kinds of things we're familiar with.

Good because the RFL will need a fair old wedge for the job of ' Head Patsy ' that Ralph Rimmer has just taken up to spare Nigel and Richard 's blushes

Stop it Joe , dont start coming on here with the VT bullsh*t speak , you and I both know they will have to win the NL comp , it's called ' Promotion '

That isn't necessarily the case though as it's been known in non-league football (a similar example with the pyramid etc) for the team finishing in second place to be promoted because the championship-winning side either don't fulfill the off-field criteria, or choose to decline promotion.

But its never been known in our sport, at our level.....We`ve followd the NRL in believing that without P&R our top teams will flourish and so will our National side.

The discussion was about the jump from the 2 nd to the 1 st tier's in RU

And it's been known in relegation also Matt, take Genesis for example or RMI as they were known. It's just P&R regulations, the thing that seems to be such a taboo subject in our sport. The piramid won't happen in RL because the gulf between national conference and C1 is as big as the Championship and SL.

It's still based on facilities, too. Exeter had to add seats to bring it's new but unfinished ground up to the required standard for the Premiership. Plymouth Albion had to buy seats from the Stoop to play in the Championship, and it was a discussion point a couple of years ago that they wouldn't be able to win promotion to the top flight playing at Brickfields.

, or if you are ' one of the club ' and it would be embarrassing for them to admit that what is already in SL isn't actually very ' super ' and it never has been , then things are also easier

It boils down to what we are becoming is Rugby Union , but not the modern reasonably clever forward thinking RU , we are turning into the RU we voted to leave over a hundred years ago , the haves and the have nots , the wanted and the not wanted , the ' sneak some cash into the players shoes at half time but we are not actually paying them ' sport that was all wrong , we have money going into ' development ' that then ends up in players pockets , those players then earn certain clubs promotion

I have no problem with 30 million Sport England money going for development of the amatuer/school , even International game , but I wont accept it being ' selectively ' given to proffessional clubs based on location for them to leapfrog over clubs having to earn their money

Well I`m damned..........the RFU are copying the blueprint of "framing the future" but the buggers(pardon the pun) are allowing P&R.Whatever next...............

It isn't, it's ringfenced and very heavily and rigorously monitored, by Sport England.

What the RFL does with its other income I don't know/can't say, but every penny of the Sport England funding is accounted for as per the original whole sport plan and funding bid.

Are you alowed to use the "Sport England Money" to prop up a Welsh Team??

No, you use money destined elsewhere to do that.

Nope, the £29.4m Sport England money is only for English projects. There is a separate, equvalent body for Wales. I'm not sure exactly how Wales RL is funded, I know it gets some grant money, and it might get RLEF money, too. It has a performance programme, so probably gets central funding on a national level. But it's basically a while different structure.